Announcing Windows ... 10?

[dZeus]

I have already seen 2 ruined Windows 10 installations that people upgraded from 7. One was BSOD before starting Windows, other had filesystem and windows image files hosed and also wasn't booting. Managed to boot with media (this is getting harder and harder) and repair filesystem, repair image (dism) and system files (sfc /scannow)

I would say for business use 7 is better than 10 at the moment. Updates failed in previous versions sometimes, I think updates with 10 are less robust (they need exorbitant amounts of free space).

The laptop I ordered for Linux was bad and I returned it, waiting for reimbursement. After that IT plan is to phase out Windows as personal machines in few years. Only keep firewalled workstation around.

dZeus, you could use tails iso image in virtual machine for browsing. This week I'm on ethical hacking course, lots of cool new stuff I learned.

Unfortunately, tails doesn't prevent Windows update needing firewall rules that also allow all other data gathering processes to dial out.

As for browsing... it's a bit convoluted to use a dedicated VM / OS just for everyday browsing.
I think a more practical approach would be to run the browser process as a different (unprivileged & local) user that has very few system access privileges. You could even split the browser instances into different privilege/security levels (e.g. a browser instance that runs as an unprivileged user for everyday browsing needs, another browser instance that uses another unprivileged user for online banking and other secure access, and a browser instance that runs as the current user for Integrated Windows Authentication needs (intranet sites).
Doesn't Qubes OS use a similar approach?

[Jammrock]

Did you try that rule in Windows 10? It doesn't work.

I'll run some tests, but not for a couple of weeks. Will be out of town for the next 11 days.

[Umfriend]

So the W7 to W10 upgrade is getting so aggresive that now 2 home PCs have been taken over by W10. I like the new font but really very busy and don;t have the time to tinker with it (e.g. the backups with WHS2011, video driver tweaks that I need to redo etc). I want to get them back to W7, which is easy enough becuase of the backups. However, I would like to keep the option to upgrade for free later (when I go WS2016). Is there some sort of W10 activation key that I should be able to retrieve from the updated machines for future use?

[UtwigMU]

Allegedly (I'm not 100% sure this is correct) once you upgrade, you get entered in database for eligibility. Then you can use your windows 7 key and reinstall from 10 media.

I don't think Windows 10 is corporate grade software yet. Feels like running Windows 2000 on a VIA chipset. My T540p won't go in hibernation most of the time which all of my laptops since A21p with 440BX chipset and WindowsXP did. Some woman in small company who upgraded her PC herself to Windows 10 has just rolled back to Windows 7.

[dZeus]

Allegedly (I'm not 100% sure this is correct) once you upgrade, you get entered in database for eligibility. Then you can use your windows 7 key and reinstall from 10 media.

I don't think Windows 10 is corporate grade software yet. Feels like running Windows 2000 on a VIA chipset. My T540p won't go in hibernation most of the time which all of my laptops since A21p with 440BX chipset and WindowsXP did. Some woman in small company who upgraded her PC herself to Windows 10 has just rolled back to Windows 7.

do you even need a key? I read that once you perform the upgrade, the system will be registered with Microsoft as part of the 'digital entitlement' activation (some unique fingerprint, could be a unique ID in the BIOS / EFI firmware?), and you can perform subsequent re-installs without any key at all.

I've been using Window 10 very sporadically (mostly using my work machine, an Apple MBP). What I've seen so far:
- many operating system settings get rolled back to the defaults when you install certain updates. This is very problematic behaviour, unless you enforce all settings through Active Directory group policies; for example, my notebook will resume from standby due to scheduled tasks (e.g. Windows update doing an unattended reboot). After disabling this behaviour, it got re-enabled again after installing some updates.
- slowly but surely Windows 10 is being turned into an 'as-a-service' operating system, much like the mobile device operating systems such as Google Android. This means showing of advertisements in the start menu, collection of telemetry data, etc.

While companies will keep using Windows for desktops as long as they haven't switched away from the Microsoft ecosystem (mostly Active Directory and on-premise Exchange), I see more and more individuals using alternative operating systems. On the (admittedly geeky) Thinkpad reddit, many people are installing Ubuntu/Arch/Fedora Linux on their newly bought Thinkpads. Before the Window 10 release, I've never seen that many people mention installing a Linux flavour on their notebook...
While this will be restricted to geeky poweruser, or part of a more mainstream movement remains to be seen (open sources adepts have been proclaiming that the next year is the year of Linux on the desktop for the past 10+ years).
This time round however, some game developers also start to become uneasy with Microsoft (e.g. Valve, Tim Sweeney, etc.).


Meanwhile, I've tested Windows 10 Mobile on a Lumia 630 with the following results (when compared to Windows Mobile 8.1 on the same device):
- the Edge browser has major stability issues (random exits to the start screen). The browser in 8.1 also had major issues (not necessarily on the same websites)
- sometimes the interface becomes very unresponsive (10-30 second delay when reacting to button presses)
- email client gets stuck in a loop when refreshing an IMAP mailbox; manually closing the outlook app and refreshing is the only way to fix this
- 'the app gap' hasn't been a substantial problem for me, not on Windows Phone 8.1, and not on Windows 10 Mobile; 95% of what I need is available, which I consider 'good enough'.
- worse battery life than Windows Mobile 8.1

Apparently doing a factory reset will fix many issues with Windows 10 Mobile, but not everything. Haven't tried that, as I fear losing Windows Phone 8.1 apps that came integrated in Windows Phone 8.1 and are not included with Windows 10 Mobile. Maybe there's a way to selectively backup apps, haven't looked into that yet.
Anyway, I can see Microsoft putting Windows 10 Mobile on the back burner, because it seems like so far it lacks the quality needed to compete.

[Jammrock]

Win10 mobile will likely not go away. Development hasn't really slowed down at all. I think the hope is that the Enterprise edition will make a splash and that will keep it alive until the Win10 platform, as a whole, has better app support.


It's no secret that Win10 is Windows-as-a-Service. Nearly everything is becoming a service of some kind. I think there will always be Linux and FreeBSD distros that will remain traditional OSs, but OSX and the big Linux distros will likely go service oriented in the next 5 years.

Do I particularly like this idea... not really. I think it's alienating too many people. Our lives are becoming the domain of large corporations more and more, and I don't particularly like it. It is the unfortunate side effect of the information era.

As for Valve, Gabe Newell has been on the Windows hate train for a very long time. His own Steam statistics say he's still losing the fight. Linux usage is still less than 1%, even with the release of SteamOS. Mac usage is up to 3.5%. Windows usage is over 95%. SteamOS, as far as I can tell, has been a major flop. Not to say it can't recover, but so far the reception has been abysmal.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

I had a very interesting conversation with a coworker lately. He was arguing that MSFT will port DirectX 12 to Linux to compete with Vulkan (the OpenGL low-level API). Especially now that MSFT is actively porting products to Linux (see SONiC and SQL Server 2016). I argued that we are making more Linux products so we can compete in the government sector, where there are an increasing number of OSS mandates, but the PC market is so dominated by Windows there's no need to port DX.

I'm curious what you guys think.

[Jammrock]

So the W7 to W10 upgrade is getting so aggresive that now 2 home PCs have been taken over by W10. I like the new font but really very busy and don;t have the time to tinker with it (e.g. the backups with WHS2011, video driver tweaks that I need to redo etc). I want to get them back to W7, which is easy enough becuase of the backups. However, I would like to keep the option to upgrade for free later (when I go WS2016). Is there some sort of W10 activation key that I should be able to retrieve from the updated machines for future use?

Remember that the Win10 upgrade may only be free for one year. I don't know what will happen if you roll back to 7, then go to 10. Don't know that I've seen anything official on that scenario.


Win10 has WHS2011 support built-in. At least according to the SBS team blog. I don't use WHS2011 anymore.

https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/sbs/2015/11/17/client-connector-availability-with-windows-home-server-small-business-server-and-windows-server-essentials-for-supported-client-os/

SERVER OS	Client OS
Windows 10 RTM
Installation	Client Connect to Server	Client Backup	Client Backup restore	Package availability	Known Issue
Windows Home Server 2011	Working	Working	Working	Working	INBOX	NONE

See this article to block the Win10 upgrade stuff.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351

[dZeus]

Win10 mobile will likely not go away. Development hasn't really slowed down at all. I think the hope is that the Enterprise edition will make a splash and that will keep it alive until the Win10 platform, as a whole, has better app support.


It's no secret that Win10 is Windows-as-a-Service. Nearly everything is becoming a service of some kind. I think there will always be Linux and FreeBSD distros that will remain traditional OSs, but OSX and the big Linux distros will likely go service oriented in the next 5 years.

Do I particularly like this idea... not really. I think it's alienating too many people. Our lives are becoming the domain of large corporations more and more, and I don't particularly like it. It is the unfortunate side effect of the information era.

As for Valve, Gabe Newell has been on the Windows hate train for a very long time. His own Steam statistics say he's still losing the fight. Linux usage is still less than 1%, even with the release of SteamOS. Mac usage is up to 3.5%. Windows usage is over 95%. SteamOS, as far as I can tell, has been a major flop. Not to say it can't recover, but so far the reception has been abysmal.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

I had a very interesting conversation with a coworker lately. He was arguing that MSFT will port DirectX 12 to Linux to compete with Vulkan (the OpenGL low-level API). Especially now that MSFT is actively porting products to Linux (see SONiC and SQL Server 2016). I argued that we are making more Linux products so we can compete in the government sector, where there are an increasing number of OSS mandates, but the PC market is so dominated by Windows there's no need to port DX.

I'm curious what you guys think.

Yes, the whole IT industry is heavily pushing towards SaaS. My company is doing the same, and I have the same reservations as you do.

There are advantages, but also disadvantages to this approach for the businesses buying the SaaS services:
*Clearer cost structure (much less direct personnel and hardware costs, stable monthly/yearly subscription rates)
*Potentially lower overhead costs (as the SaaS provider can maintain infrastructure and software more directly and at much larger scale than the client). Whether this translates in lower costs for the client, or higher margins for the SaaS provider is another matter.
*Higher risk of vendor lock-in, resultant in higher subscription costs; it's vital for end-users to retain direct access to their data stored in the SaaS, or it'll be much more difficult to extract and migrate this data to a competing solution.
*Increased reliance on internet connectivity, cloud platform and application server software, both of which are much harder to control for the end client than an internal infrastructure for on-premise apps. Of course, in practice the combined uptime for SaaS+internet connectivity is probably higher than on-premise solutions for the majority of enterprises, except for some really large multi-nationals that have set up on-premise apps with very high uptime requirements.

As for non-corporate SaaS.. I don't like it at all. Am definitely not a proponent of storing private data in the cloud. I realise fully that most companies and friends/colleagues that have data on me, will be storing that in some sort of SaaS solution, so short of becoming a hermit and go offline completely, there's no way to avoid it.
But actively embracing it? Nope, and that's why I dislike what is happening with Windows 10...

[Umfriend]

Remember that the Win10 upgrade may only be free for one year. I don't know what will happen if you roll back to 7, then go to 10. Don't know that I've seen anything official on that scenario.

That is exactly what I am wondering about. I could perhaps keep a WHS backup of a W10 installation as well.

I know WHS will backup W10 but more often than not one needs to reconfigure the backup settings.

[Jammrock]

If the computer name and ID in WHS didn't change you shouldn't have to change or reinitialize anything. But I'm not 100% certain. I've been off WHS2011 for a long time.

If that's the case then the Win10 backup would eventually overwrite the Win7 backups. And if you went back to Win7 the Win10 backup would eventually overwritten by Win7. Unless you backed up the backup.

The Server Essentials 2012 R2 was totally broken with Win10. Those using that had to wait for a working connector and rebuild everything.


I have no release date for Server 2016. I would assume this summer sometime. The Tech Previews are pretty solid now. I need new hardware before I can run it, which won't happen until next year. Looking at the Xeon D SoC line to replace my ancient HP MicroServer N40L.

[Umfriend]

Oh, actually, with WHS2011, you can tell it to keep certain backups.

[dZeus]

Win10 mobile will likely not go away. Development hasn't really slowed down at all. I think the hope is that the Enterprise edition will make a splash and that will keep it alive until the Win10 platform, as a whole, has better app support.

....

maybe development on Windows 10 mobile hasn't slowed down, but it seems like Nadella has taken the opinion no longer wanting to subsidise the phones they sell. And very few people are going to shell out full price for a flagship that doesn't run on a mature phone OS.

I really like Windows Phone, but right now, Windows Phone 8.1 ran better than Windows 10 Mobile on my Lumia... no wonder people are failing to embrace it:
Phone revenue declined 46% in constant currency
Free Lumia 950 with a 950 XL

[Umfriend]

So, I am actually very happy with W10, a very limited number of quirks and, my god, is it better than W8!!!