Time for a hardware refresh

[Kooldino]

Hey old timers, how have you been?

So I've got my main linux machine here that is getting a bit long in the tooth. It's been rock solid for about 6 or 7 years running an an Intel DP35DP motherboard and a 3.2GHz Core 2 Duo. Running on Kubuntu 12.04 LTS, it's finally beginning to feel slow.

I'd like to update the mobo/CPU (with on die graphics)/RAM

Since this is the most rock solid machine I've ever owned, I'd like to stick with an Intel CPU and reference board, if possible.

It looks like LGA 1150 is what all the cool kids are running nowadays. It looks like 14nm is the latest process.

So before I do anything, I have to figure out a few basics.

1. What chipset? Intel lists their Performance Chipsets as the X99, Z97, z87, Q87, Z77 Express, z75 Express, X79 Express. It unfortunately doesn't really list the differences on their website.
2. I'd like to go with 14nm, but most of the chips I'm finding on newegg, etc are larger.
3. I don't know if I should go i5 or i7. I'm not trying to break the bank here, so a good i5 should do?
4. It also appears that Intel has newer on die graphics - the 5500, 6000, and 6100. I'm assuming that bigger numbers are better here?

[Umfriend]

Hi Kool, long time no see.

What are you planning to do with the machine? That Core 2 Duo is a 2C/2T CPU, right? I would not be surprised if an i3 would gain you a lot already. Also, you'll need new RAM. I run my server on a B75 chipset and I am not sure how a Perf.Chipset would help (materially anyway) unless you want to overclock or something.

AFAIK, 14nm is only used now for mobile solutions. For desktop you'd have to wait for Skylake later this year I think.

Yes, bigger is better.

And all these Intel chips do great at our DC project, which is also a great stability/performance checking tool: http://www.murc.ws/showthread.php?73...ving-the-world ;-)

[UtwigMU]

generally core i5 is 2C / 4T and Core i7 is 4C / 8T (i5 uses hyperthreading to make 2 cores act like 4, i7 uses HT to make 4C act like 8) but it's not always the case.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404674,00.asp

A good start is Techreport System guide.

[Umfriend]

AFAIK, i5 is generally 4C/4T...?! (i3 is 2C/4T and Pentium/Celeron is 2C/2T) But with the iX-5xxx series (only for mobile) it is different, there are 2C/4T i7s out there. Thanks Intel for making it simple. What Core 2 Duo do you have? You might want to check http://www.passmark.com/ for some easy comparisons.

As an example, the C2D E6700 @ 3.2GHz has a score of 1982 vs 5540 for the i3-4370. Single thread scores are 1306 vs 2235. TDP is somewhat lower for the 4370 at 54W vs 65W for the E6700. And the E6700 is, afaik, about 5 years old so you may have an even older/slower C2D. Of course, if you have something like a Q6700 then you'd be at 3348 already but at a whopping 105W TDP etc. So, what do you have and what do you (want to) do with it?

[Kooldino]

Hi Kool, long time no see.

Likewise!

What are you planning to do with the machine?

Just general computing. Web browsing, multimedia, etc.

AFAIK, 14nm is only used now for mobile solutions. For desktop you'd have to wait for Skylake later this year I think.

Dammit. What's the ETA on that?

And all these Intel chips do great at our DC project, which is also a great stability/performance checking tool: http://www.murc.ws/showthread.php?73...ving-the-world ;-)

Excellent!

[Kooldino]

generally core i5 is 2C / 4T and Core i7 is 4C / 8T (i5 uses hyperthreading to make 2 cores act like 4, i7 uses HT to make 4C act like 8) but it's not always the case.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2404674,00.asp

A good start is Techreport System guide.

Good read, thanks. So I definitely want the best on die Iris graphics I can get. If that's available in an i5, then that should be fine...if not I'll have to go i7.

In reality I don't mind spending another $100 if it means that I can go another year before refreshing the machine.

[Kooldino]

AFAIK, i5 is generally 4C/4T...?! (i3 is 2C/4T and Pentium/Celeron is 2C/2T) But with the iX-5xxx series (only for mobile) it is different, there are 2C/4T i7s out there. Thanks Intel for making it simple. What Core 2 Duo do you have? You might want to check http://www.passmark.com/ for some easy comparisons.

Couldn't find on their site (cool site, btw), but it was a high end Core 2 Duo with the updated process circa 2008.

As an example, the C2D E6700 @ 3.2GHz has a score of 1982 vs 5540 for the i3-4370. Single thread scores are 1306 vs 2235. TDP is somewhat lower for the 4370 at 54W vs 65W for the E6700. And the E6700 is, afaik, about 5 years old so you may have an even older/slower C2D. Of course, if you have something like a Q6700 then you'd be at 3348 already but at a whopping 105W TDP etc. So, what do you have and what do you (want to) do with it?

Yeah, but even doubling performance wouldn't be enough at this point. Even web browsing and flash are really crippling the machine. I'd like something that would do at least 7K on that list. Preferably around 9K.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/high_end_cpus.html

It's not about what it needs right now, it's about what it needs 6 years from now. Just trying to future proof it a bit.

[UtwigMU]

Make sure you get SSD, 64-bit OS and 8GB of RAM. I'd prefer C2D with SSD to i5/i7 with HDD. For which SSDs are good and last long go to storagereview.

Samsung, Crucial, Kingston tend to be good now.

[Jammrock]

Hay Kooldino! Good to see you again!

Broadwell is 14nm but I think the desktop SKU's are being skipped since Skylake is so close. The Skylake launch schedule just got leaked. Aug/Sep for most desktop SKU's.

Intel is stepping out of the retail motherboard market. They'll release some specialty board, like embedded solutions, but that's about it. Chances are you won't get a Skylake board from Intel unless you buy a NUC (which is an ultra-small form factor barebones computer). For general computing a NUC is just fine, and it will make the build very simple. Just add RAM, SSD and WiFi (optional) and off you go. For a traditional desktop build you'll have to go third-party.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6685/the-end-of-an-era-intels-desktop-motherboard-business-to-ramp-down-over-next-3-years

On the SSD front the M.2 is the hot property. They allow for some insane speeds (1.6GB/s reads and 100k+ IOPS) at a reasonable price. Should be more than enough speed to last you another 6-7 years (in theory). Samsung and Hyper-X (Kingston) make the fastest M.2 drives out, if the motherboard supports it. These can be installed if the mobo has an M.2 slot on it, or via a PCIe adapter.

8GB is fine for today, but who knows what you'll need down the road. 16GB is under $100 USD right now. No reason to go with less if you can afford it.


The biggest difference in chipsets is the number of PCI-Express (PCIe) lanes. PCIe is like an ultra-high speed switch for your peripherals. Like a switch it has a limited number of ports, or lanes. The lower end chipsets have fewer lanes, which means you can put fewer fancy features on it. The high end boards have more PCIe lanes, which allows them to have all the fancy features. There are some other differences, but that's the biggest one, IMO.

So the chipset depends a lot on what kind of features and expansion you want to do. If you build once and don't touch the system until you get a new one, and don't do anything super fancy, then a mid-range chipset (H-series) is enough. If you want multiple video cards, and lots of options to attach high end parts, then you need the X- or Z-series. X is for the socket 2011-v3 like parts. Z-series if for regular desktop parts (socket 1150).

The big difference between i5 and i7 is hyperthreading and speed. i7's are better gamers, but an i5 should be more than enough. Hyperthreading only comes into play during heavy multithreaded operations, and then only sometimes. Unless you do serious graphics editing, or hardcore gaming, or just have money burning a hole in your pockets, then a quad core i5 will do.

Iris Pro is the high-end IGP graphics from Intel. It can kind of game. Indie retro games (like 2D scrollers) play just fine, as do some of the older or simpler 3D games. Newer, fancier games may work if you crank down the eye candy and resolution. For watching videos will work like a charm. It has hardware decoders and up to 4k video support for all the major codecs. The bigger the number the faster and more video cores the IGP will have.

[Umfriend]

UtwigMU is so right, SSD, SSD and SSD. If you want 9K, which really seems like a lot to me for browsing and general computing even in 6 years (also as flash will be non-existent by then ), then I would simply go for an i7-4770, 16GB, basic chipset such as the B85, great silent cooler (combined with underclocking/undervolting) and an SSD. Quite a bit of money but it should last you for some time.

Better yet, wait for Skylark but you'll end up buying the same, just a newer generation i7, likely a bit faster, lower TDP and support for M.2 SSDs and DDR4.

And run Rosetta on that beast!

[Kooldino]

Make sure you get SSD, 64-bit OS and 8GB of RAM. I'd prefer C2D with SSD to i5/i7 with HDD. For which SSDs are good and last long go to storagereview.

Samsung, Crucial, Kingston tend to be good now.

I've already got the SSD, been running 64 it kubuntu for years, and I'll more than likely get 16GB of RAM. All covered!

[Kooldino]

Hay Kooldino! Good to see you again!

Likewise!

Broadwell is 14nm but I think the desktop SKU's are being skipped since Skylake is so close. The Skylake launch schedule just got leaked. Aug/Sep for most desktop SKU's.

Sunofa...

Intel is stepping out of the retail motherboard market. They'll release some specialty board, like embedded solutions, but that's about it. Chances are you won't get a Skylake board from Intel unless you buy a NUC (which is an ultra-small form factor barebones computer). For general computing a NUC is just fine, and it will make the build very simple. Just add RAM, SSD and WiFi (optional) and off you go. For a traditional desktop build you'll have to go third-party.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6685/the-end-of-an-era-intels-desktop-motherboard-business-to-ramp-down-over-next-3-years

Well, crap. This explains why I couldn't find any new Intel boards anywhere.

I have something similar to a NUC for my windows box - a Gigabyte Brix 4770R. Works pretty well, but it would be cheaper to just rebuild my main machine, and it's nice to have at least one REAL PC in the house, should I need some features that a sff machine lacks.

On the SSD front the M.2 is the hot property. They allow for some insane speeds (1.6GB/s reads and 100k+ IOPS) at a reasonable price. Should be more than enough speed to last you another 6-7 years (in theory). Samsung and Hyper-X (Kingston) make the fastest M.2 drives out, if the motherboard supports it. These can be installed if the mobo has an M.2 slot on it, or via a PCIe adapter.

Yeah, I've been on the SSD bandwagon for about 6 years now. It's the only way to fly. 4 of my machines have them.

8GB is fine for today, but who knows what you'll need down the road. 16GB is under $100 USD right now. No reason to go with less if you can afford it.

Exactly. I have 16GB in my Gigabyte too. At this stage of the game, I don't need or want to nickle and dime the build if it's going to last me awhile. Hardware is so cheap anymore that the price gap between "decent" and "great" is easy to swallow.

The biggest difference in chipsets is the number of PCI-Express (PCIe) lanes. PCIe is like an ultra-high speed switch for your peripherals. Like a switch it has a limited number of ports, or lanes. The lower end chipsets have fewer lanes, which means you can put fewer fancy features on it. The high end boards have more PCIe lanes, which allows them to have all the fancy features. There are some other differences, but that's the biggest one, IMO.

The only PCIe cards I probably even own at this point are a sound card and a video card. And I'll likely use neither, so I don't need anything special there.

So the chipset depends a lot on what kind of features and expansion you want to do. If you build once and don't touch the system until you get a new one, and don't do anything super fancy, then a mid-range chipset (H-series) is enough. If you want multiple video cards, and lots of options to attach high end parts, then you need the X- or Z-series. X is for the socket 2011-v3 like parts. Z-series if for regular desktop parts (socket 1150).

H series it is. Thanks!

The big difference between i5 and i7 is hyperthreading and speed. i7's are better gamers, but an i5 should be more than enough. Hyperthreading only comes into play during heavy multithreaded operations, and then only sometimes. Unless you do serious graphics editing, or hardcore gaming, or just have money burning a hole in your pockets, then a quad core i5 will do.

Roger that. I'm mostly concerned with single threaded performance.

Iris Pro is the high-end IGP graphics from Intel. It can kind of game. Indie retro games (like 2D scrollers) play just fine, as do some of the older or simpler 3D games. Newer, fancier games may work if you crank down the eye candy and resolution. For watching videos will work like a charm. It has hardware decoders and up to 4k video support for all the major codecs. The bigger the number the faster and more video cores the IGP will have.

Yeah, I definitely want the best IGP they have to offer, since I'll be stuck with it until I refresh the machine again. It's not like swapping out a PCIe card anymore. My Gigabyte is Haswell based, so it has the Iris Pro 5200. I don't game much, but it runs Quake 3 like a champ (ha), Starcraft II in high res with medicore settings (I think the lack of memory for textures hurts it), etc.

[Umfriend]

Broadwell is 14nm but I think the desktop SKU's are being skipped since Skylake is so close. The Skylake launch schedule just got leaked. Aug/Sep for most desktop SKU's.

I do hope they make it. I am really looking forward to replace my laptop/workstation. Since I went SSD I see no reason to go desktop anymore, but then I rarely game. It is just a pain laptops aren't customisable as much as desktops. I really want to replace my 3yo i7-2670QM with something faster and, if possible, 32GB instead of 16GB and 2 SSDs. Anyway, I would definately wait for Skylake.

[Jammrock]

Looks like there will be a limited Broadwell desktop processor release after all. Broadwell desktop CPUs were just released. With Silverlake still just 4-5 months out I don't know that it's worth it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9320/intel-broadwell-review-i7-5775c-i5-5765c

[Umfriend]

Silverlake? Skylake? That and those are likely the last fit for the current Z97 and lower chipset mbs. I would wait. I will wait.