car buying these days...

[VJ]

Yes I can see your problem. I'd look at buying a second hand petrol Euro 5 or 6 from Germany and import it yourself, and plan to use it until at least 2030 and expect little residual value at that point.

edit:
Sorry, misread your post... Yes, little residual value is realistic... Just seems a bit annoying... been driving an old car for quite some time (got the Polo when it was new), and then now get a used car... somehow I'm always worried about buying another person's problems. Perhaps I'm too negative on that...
OTOH, there I should also count for limited residual value on a newly bought car if it survives till 2035...

Maybe I'm just trying to find excuses for myself to replace an 18 year old Polo...?

[UtwigMU]

This EV only plan by 2035 is pipe dream baring any unforeseen black swan. Maybe the elite's vision is that only classes which owned cars pre WW2 will continue to own their own cars. You will own nothing and you will be happy.

Mean construction time for Nukes is 7.5 years, coal plants are banned, hydros are all dammed in Europe. The energy grid is in no way following even the organic uptake of EVs, moreover the state mandates. So during this time the plan will probably get some revisions or non-woke politicians who know they can't politically compel physics will come in power. The core EU is now importing coal electricity from periphery, if that is gone we lack base power already.

Like dDzeus said: get used petrol with as new euro rating as economically viable. People buy used cars and resell them to Eastern Europe or Middle east. Market will be down but it will be there It's not a big deal whether your 15y old used car is worth 2k or 1k Eur.

[dZeus]

edit:
Sorry, misread your post... Yes, little residual value is realistic... Just seems a bit annoying... been driving an old car for quite some time (got the Polo when it was new), and then now get a used car... somehow I'm always worried about buying another person's problems. Perhaps I'm too negative on that...
OTOH, there I should also count for limited residual value on a newly bought car if it survives till 2035...

Maybe I'm just trying to find excuses for myself to replace an 18 year old Polo...?

If you buy a reliable brand with sub-100K kilometrage I don't see much risk. Honda are supposed to be among the most reliable car manufacturers hence my choice (as well as the Civic having a large boot). I'd never buy a new car as I don't see the economic sense (unless there's some fiscal incentive like a leasing construction that compells you to buy new).

It makes a lot of sense to buy in a large secondhand market where people like to get new shiny cars each 3-8 years, like Germany or the UK, and then import the car yourself. Of course you might not prefer a right hand steering wheel, hence the more obvious choice would be Germany for you.

[VJ]

If you buy a reliable brand with sub-100K kilometrage I don't see much risk.

Maybe... but it would have to hold out till 2030... at least... I'm always worried about buying another persons problems... I know people that had good experiences with second hand cars, but most seem to be a bit more knowledgable about it and still often mention something along the lines of "yes, it is good, but...". And I don't like this "but" part.

In addition, the driver seat in many used cars feels uncomfortable to me. Maybe because I don't weigh much (<58 kg), but quite often the driver seat feels sat through. This happened with my parents Volvo 850 after a couple of years and not many kilometres and also with their current car (my father weighs 80kg, so not extreme).

I'm not adverse to buying a new car: I like the peace of mind that comes with it. There can be problems (my first car had ample), but then at least there is the warranty which limits your financial loss.

Meanwhile, shortly after posting my post yesterday, my oil light went on again. I ended up adding 400 ml after about 1000 km since the last time I added oil. I checked later on a cold engine and the oil level is now again perfect. While this oil usage is within norm according to the manual it is a rather a lot and a bit cumbersome/worrying. I've noted the kilometres and will keep monitoring the level... The car was already checked out at a dealer and nothing out of the ordinary was diagnosed.

[dZeus]

Maybe... but it would have to hold out till 2030... at least... I'm always worried about buying another persons problems... I know people that had good experiences with second hand cars, but most seem to be a bit more knowledgable about it and still often mention something along the lines of "yes, it is good, but...". And I don't like this "but" part.

In addition, the driver seat in many used cars feels uncomfortable to me. Maybe because I don't weigh much (<58 kg), but quite often the driver seat feels sat through. This happened with my parents Volvo 850 after a couple of years and not many kilometres and also with their current car (my father weighs 80kg, so not extreme).

I'm not adverse to buying a new car: I like the peace of mind that comes with it. There can be problems (my first car had ample), but then at least there is the warranty which limits your financial loss.

Meanwhile, shortly after posting my post yesterday, my oil light went on again. I ended up adding 400 ml after about 1000 km since the last time I added oil. I checked later on a cold engine and the oil level is now again perfect. While this oil usage is within norm according to the manual it is a rather a lot and a bit cumbersome/worrying. I've noted the kilometres and will keep monitoring the level... The car was already checked out at a dealer and nothing out of the ordinary was diagnosed.

To each their own, but I think the depreciation resulting from the simple act of driving a new car out of the showroom is greater than the risk of losing money on a second hand car that you can submit for an independant technical audit prior to buying it.
In my rather limited experience with Japanese and rental cars, I've never noticed a sagging driving seat (maybe it's more likely with leather seats?).

[VJ]

To each their own, but I think the depreciation resulting from the simple act of driving a new car out of the showroom is greater than the risk of losing money on a second hand car that you can submit for an independant technical audit prior to buying it.
In my rather limited experience with Japanese and rental cars, I've never noticed a sagging driving seat (maybe it's more likely with leather seats?).

My parents don't have leather seats... With my back problems, comfort is very important. I would even consider changing the seat to e.g. an ergonomic Recaro if the second hand car would be a good solution otherwise. I have yet to sit in a Toyota I find comfortable for example... Subaru is comfortable for me (and am still looking at those in secondhand market - but they are not cheap ).

To me it is not so much about losing money but rather about the piece of mind: I do not intend to sell the car but drive it to the end (like with my current one: 18 years and going). If I take good care of it, I know its history. However, the whole timeline of LEZ may make my intention of using the car long obsolete. So I have to agree with you that a new car which would be limited after 2030 (pre-Euro 6d) is pointless, one that goes till 2035 may just be ok for me. But as time goes on that calculation gets worse, making a new car les and less interesting. My current car has the small oil issue of my current car, but I don't know if it is not a sign of things to come. I'm still just worried that a second hand car (provided I find one) may put in a similar - if not more difficult - position in 2030...

[VJ]

Just heard a story of a friend of my in-laws.
He got a Kia Sportage 2019 second hand, and something broke. When trying to get it fixed under warranty, he learned the car has no warranty. It turns out it was imported from the Czech Republic, where the original buyers resigned from warranty to get a big discount. Then it was imported to Poland, without this knowledge and a used car dealer (quite a big chain) sold it to him. He managed to get the place where he bought the car to take it back and paid extra to get a newer model (for which he used the VIN to check the warranty at an official Kia dealer, before buying it). But adding up the cost of the first car and the money he paid extra, he ended up paying more than what he would have paid for a new car. And his previous car is on the dealer's website as having "first registration in Poland, first owner", so they keep cheating on people...

We just had to cancel a flight to Belgium due to covid issues (actually, instead of boarding the plane in Berlin to fly to Brussels, we took a train to Warsaw), and the current evolution throws a wrench in our Christmas plans as well (possible restrictions, lockdowns, expensive tickets)... In summer we went by car and it showed that going by car to Belgium does have its benefits. So the search for a car became again more of a hot topic. We may visit several dealers next week, a bit curious how long the wait is on cars now...... most likely won't be before Christmas if we opt for a new one...

[VJ]

Just had a test-drive with a Subaru XV (in the US, this is the CrossTrek)... It was very comfortable, and silent. You completely did not feel the bad road surface and it was very light to steer. The trunk looked small, but when checking the dimensions it is quite ok (a bit is lost due to the hybrid battery). They have quite some stock of this model coming in, and due to the fact that in Poland you just have four trim-levels and no options, there is a big chance that we would not have to wait long.

It is however near the top end of what we would like to spend. Next on our list are Volkswagen and Mazda... From the online pricelists, it will be possible to get a cheaper Volkswagen (Golf, T-roc), but it will be less equipped for that lower price. Similar for Mazda. Of course Subaru has the AWD... also possible in the Mazda and then it seems to bring the price to a similar point.

The lack of a waiting time could be interesting, given our uncertain plans for going in Christmas to Belgium... main reason to consider the car is long drives to Belgium... a bit inspired/necessitated by the issues planning trips in covid times... By car it is much easier to quickly react to changing situations, and the cost of the trip is known, no matter when you go.

[UtwigMU]

Having a reliable car in these times is a must. Subaru, Mazda and VW are all good choices. 4x4 can be handy if you need to cross border outside of checkpoints.

Don't order car, take the car that is physically present at the dealership.

Heard another KIA story. A guy who works as a cook in restaurant bought KIA Cee'd some years ago, new on leasing. The dealership gave him around 7k discount or so on 21k car. (But I think once he would have calculated cost of leasing, it would amount to same).

Since now his family needs a bigger car, he wanted to return the car and get another brand. Problem is he would have to pay discount difference, so it would cost him a lot and it's a problem for him. Only option for him is selling the car so that the new owner continues leasing or taking a significant financial hit (paying 7k to dealership and then selling car for around 10-15k).

[VJ]

The car does not have to be 4x4 (I don't intend to offroad), but it would be nice to have in winter - especially now that we are considering driving to Belgium in winter, before we just avoided that. The roads around the dealer were quite bad, and it was nice to see how the car behaves as if potholes and such are not there. I once drove a friends Jeep Grand Cherokee on a forest road, and it reminded me of that (my Polo was dancing around on that same road ).

My wife and I both liked that the Subaru does not look so massive. It is surprising to read it is just 10 cm shorter than my fathers old Volvo 850 or my inlaws Dacia Lodgy. The Imprezas are not really popular, which is why there are no Impreza's in stock (a bit of a shame: a full equipped Impreza is nearly 3000 eur cheaper than a full equipped XV, and the only difference is that the XV is just higher on its wheels). Ordering a Subaru now has at least a 6 month waiting list, so not so interesting (I did order the Polo 19 years ago, waited 3 months for it). Interesting that the Subaru in reviews often tend to be considered disappointing by not being sportive, with reviewers lamenting Subaru's history; it is like the brand's history makes them now quite lame in reviewers' eyes. The Mazda CX-30 is quite similar in size and shape, so might also be interesting. It seems quite well equipped at a decent price, but from reviews I found it is said to be slightly less comfortable and less noise isolated. But comfort is very subjective, so for sure we'll try. UK-based reviews also list the Volvo XC40 as a competitor, but price-wise that for sure is not the case in Poland. Cupra Formentor would be another candidate, but it is not Euro 6d. The Lexus UX has quite a high base price and we would add some options, making it unlikely to be available soon.... We may today pass via a Volkswagen dealer to check their offers, but it is a bit a similar story: low base price, many options (and cars from stock with automatic gearboxes tend to be expensive versions, making it less likely that something in stock would appeal to us). Honda HR-V just became available here, so we'll check it also...

[VJ]

Well, this became much more relevant and urgent... Both my parents tested positive for Covid (I posted it in the Covid thread), even though they are both always careful: masks, disinfection, avoiding crowds...

Now I'm certain I'll go in December, and I intend to go more frequently - as in every 2 months. I'm fed up with not being able to see them: since December 2019, I managed to visit them ONCE. They are not getting any younger (my father is 77) and pandemic makes it two years lost. Of course I would go by car: less infection risk for either side, easier to plan with changing restrictions and no risk of cancelled flights. Then there is the tax Belgium plans on short flights, which would make a one way flight 80 euros more expensive and the social situation (strikes which block access to the airport)...

[UtwigMU]

If urgent just buy used shitbox Octavia or some other VW with either 1.9 or 2.0 TDI for like 2-3k for December trip if your Polo is not up to par. Take it so service prior to purchase and then service important parts.

Check rentals if you just need the Christmas trip. The rental prices should be way down these days and there are places which rent very basic cars very cheaply. Few years ago when my car was in repairs for a long time I managed to find Citroen Saxo for less than 10 EUR / day. I just needed a car to commute 10km for couple of weeks. Was way more economical then buying used very basic car for around 1k and then selling it.

If you can buy new or close to new before December, get what's physically available.

[VJ]

I fully trust the Polo to take us there and back: I have a bottle of oil, it has quite new tires and battery. I'm not sure I would trust a used shitbox to the same extent.
Still, if we are considering a car, it would be nice to have it sooner than later...

[UtwigMU]

Polo is fine, 12-16y old Polo didn't let me down when I was taking 500km trips to Vienna, Prague or Florence. I did have to keep oil can in the trunk though.

[VJ]

I'm just wondering if getting an ignition coil... In the last two years, three ignition coils failed. On two occasions I was close to a VW dealer and manage to limp there, but one time we needed the VW-assistance (mobility warranty really works), who said that he could have fixed it right there and then if he would have had the part. With three failed, that leaves one still there... Not such an expensive part to buy and keep as a spare, and if I were to get an OBD tool it would probably be possible to replace it myself... May be something to get if I would do the trip with the Polo (it would be again a 3000 km trip).