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**Alegria** · 3 April 2000, 12:43

We would desperately want to know something about IRQs, conflicts, driver revisions, and moreover I would like to know how you do in your job if you can't solve those problems by researching and doing things in a logical step by step manner to find out where problems start. I just visited your homepage and I saw the mcp/mcse links. How ironic.
Come on guys, flame me now I deserve it, I'm in a bad mood.

No regards, Alegria

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The pump don't work, 'cause the vandals took the handle...
Bob Dylan

**Bixler** · 3 April 2000, 13:45

Jeez Alegria! No flames here, just my sympathies.

That was a mighty long post just to be pulling our chain though, don't you suppose.
I checked the web page too and found it courious. Then I remembered one of my better friends who is on the same certification track as well as having a college degree in computer programming who has to call moi when it's time to do anything with her hardware, including installing win 98.

Let's give it a chance.

Tony,

IRQ listing for both systems, which OS you're running, and particularly which Driver set you are using for both Vid Cards.

**Tony Seattle** · 3 April 2000, 14:51

No flames here, I understand, truth be known I did finish my MCSE and I have been an MCT for years. (I don't teach now).
Basically I am a Manager, the Sr. Project type... Call Centers. Started as a Win 95 tech for MS before becoming a manager. And I even owned a computer store.. back in '85 (286-486) time.

All that and a dollar won't buy me a latte and still won't mean that I can get these friggin' systems stable! LOL

Heck I interview A+ techs who couldn't IRQ troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag.

But I am hat in hand here... I know.. strip it all out, build it back piece by piece.
I have done that!
Flash bios, new drivers, agp miniport, via 4in1..been there, done that.

Now I am trying to see if I have missed the forest for the trees...

A fresh set of eyes. I host LAN parties at my house every other month and my friends (for free food and beer) are always trying to get them to stay stable. To no avail!

So flame me if you will, just tell me how to keep it stable afterward..ok?

Thanks!

Will post the vid/IRQ info. tomorrow... at work now.

**Bixler** · 3 April 2000, 15:10

Tony:

I feel for ya man. Keep it on an even keel and you'll get more vidcard help here than you'll know what to do with. And I'll bet Allegria will be one of the helpers. Won't be me though, as I am mostly a learner, only knowing what I have to know to keep my POS SS7 system running until I can find another excuse to spend MANY dollars on what my wife calls my "toy." (I've run out of children to give old machines to)

FYI and as a starter...your K7 problems are probably just that...K7 and the attendant peripherals which are, as you said, just too new. Many loyal K7 fans here, and you'll get much help--this will be my next system.

Regarding the PIII y'know, it actually could be your G-400 if all the tweaks aren't set right and you're running on the wrong driver.

You came to the right place, just keep your game face on and you'll get help up the wazoo!!

EDIT:
BTW, I'm drooling to see what happens here with your GeForce DDR and the G-400 as/if you swap machines...keep your EYES open!

[This message has been edited by Bixler (edited 03 April 2000).]

**Wombat** · 3 April 2000, 16:16

Tony,
The K7 system:
It's probably the FIC board. Those SD-11's are crappy, and easily the worst K7 boards out there. Especially if you bought the MB last year. If you can report the Rev #, we can tell you if that board is probably the problem, or definitely the problem (earlier versions were even missing a capacitor). I don't know what happened to FIC, I liked the 503+ I had, but the SD-11 is awful.

If it's that old, you probably can't get the store you bought it from to exchange it, but it's worth a shot. Also, call FIC, they've been known to exchange the older revisions for newer ones, and they may help. -- Somebody on this forum has done that, and if you search for FIC tech support in the text, you may find the thread I'm referring to.

If you decide to just replace the MB, I recommend the MSI K7Pro, or one of the KX133 boards, such as the Epox.

-Wombat

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MSI-6167 w/ Athlon 500@750 (thx Greebe!), 128MB Crucial PC133, G400MAX,SBLive!-MP3,Pioneer 10x DVD, Phillips CD-R, a hard drive or two, and a Sony 420GS. Running RH6.1, and Win98 (when I have to).

**Alegria** · 3 April 2000, 23:14

Hi Tony,
I had some time to cool down and think things over. I didn't mean to insult you I just wondered what is so special about these systems that you couldn't manage to get them up and running as stable as they should run.
O.K. now, let's go through some steps with the K7 system. In my opinion the FIC SD11 is not that bad but there have been MB revisions that were known to cause problems. Check if you have a MB revision below 1.7. The Rev# is printed on the board somewhere in one of the corners. If it is below 1.7 it has some stability issues, especially doing things like spontaneous reboots and drop outs. Using 300W PSs should be sufficient for the configuration. You wrote that you have problems in using USB devices. There is a newer USB filter driver available for Windows 98 and W2K over at VIA's site which is said to support more USB devices than before. But some older chipset revisions of the VIA stuff are also said to cause trouble with USB devices if working at all under W2K.
I know that is not the problem with the K7 system but should be considered after all.
Lock ups and crashes are often memory related so you might also want to swap modules just for a try. IRQ sharing should be reducable, almost, but if it is done be some devices make sure it does not share with the graphics card. You said you re-built the system step by step. Does that mean you also installed the OSs step by step. I mean, put in one card, boot, install driver, check the hell out of it, shut down, put in next, do it all over again with the next thing?
Same things apply to the P3 system. I just sit here and wonder.

Man, I wish I could help you more but as I like to say, I need even more INPUT.

Now, with best regards, Alegria

------------------
The pump don't work, 'cause the vandals took the handle...
Bob Dylan

**Tony Seattle** · 4 April 2000, 12:18

No flames here, I understand, truth be known I did finish my MCSE and I have been an MCT for years. (I don't teach now).
Basically I am a Manager, the Sr. Project type... Call Centers. Started as a Win 95 tech for MS before becoming a manager. And I even owned a computer store.. back in '85 (286-486) time.

All that and a dollar won't buy me a latte and still won't mean that I can get these friggin' systems stable! LOL

Heck I interview A+ techs who couldn't IRQ troubleshoot their way out of a paper bag.

But I am hat in hand here... I know.. strip it all out, build it back piece by piece.
I have done that!
Flash bios, new drivers, agp miniport, via 4in1..been there, done that.

Now I am trying to see if I have missed the forest for the trees...

A fresh set of eyes. I host LAN parties at my house every other month and my friends (for free food and beer) are always trying to get them to stay stable. To no avail!

So flame me if you will, just tell me how to keep it stable afterward..ok?

Thanks!

Will post the vid/IRQ info. tomorrow... at work now.

**Tony Seattle** · 4 April 2000, 12:20

I pulled the info on each of the systems from the System Information option. Although, the K7 System Information in SE would not work, it could be an indication of a greater prob. SE install did not go through completely. So I go it in W2K. Put the G400 in the K7 machine because of the Tom's Hardware article and the PC Gamer K7 & Geforce Article.

K7
SD11 rev. 1.7

IRQ shared:

9 Votrex platform
PCI Audio
ACPI Holder

10 SCSI
VIA Tech PCI-USB
ACPI Holder

11 3 Com Nic
Matrox G400
ACPI Holder

14 & 15 VIA Master-Pri/Sec IDE Cntr

G400 2/2/2000 ver 003 4.12.01.1500 file ver

P3
IRQ 7 Intel EtherExpress PRO/10 PCI
IRQ 7 Creative SB Live! Value
IRQ 7 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
IRQ 11 3D Prophet DDR-DVI
IRQ 11 ACPI IRQ Holder for PCI IRQ Steering
IRQ 14 Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)
IRQ 14 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller
IRQ 15 Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
IRQ 15 VIA Bus Master PCI IDE Controller

**Bixler** · 4 April 2000, 13:51

On your K7: Nic's and G-400's DO NOT like each other. Move the Nic to another IRQ and leave your G-400 on 11. --But first. Have you really tried this rig in stripped down mode?? NOTHING but the primary HD on MB's IDE 1, Mem, and Vid Card ONLY from a clean install? I'd certainly start there before we go on a wild goose chase bug hunt. You might want to see what some others say before you go tearing into the rig on my say so...but it's where I'd start. And see if you can enable an option in your bios called "Assign IRQ to VGA" Install and test before putting other cards in.

Don't have any advice on the Geforce, except that it's a resource hog too, just like the g-400, and sharing isn't a good idea if you are looking for 3D performance. It works for some, but not for most.

Lets see if some other members want to deal with the specifics of IRQ swapping on the individual boards. Also post your BIOS type and revision number when you post back in.

**The Rock** · 4 April 2000, 13:57

Tony:

Your problem might be the Via 4-in-1 driver (for the Athlon system anyway). The very latest version is said to cause terrible crashing and general unstability according to Tom's Hardware (www.tomshardware.com). You may wanna check Tom's for the article on that and go back to an earlier driver version.

The Rock

[This message has been edited by The Rock (edited 04 April 2000).]

**Alegria** · 4 April 2000, 21:42

If the WIN98SE install didn't pass properly, what kind of errors occured then? CAB decoding failed, hangs or error messages? Those are most likely to happen memory module related errors. Running the machines in ACPI mode might be another issue. Try to turn off ACPI through the BIOS and do a clean step by step reinstallation as I mentioned before. This should track down IRQ sharing issues that could be keeping your systems from running stable. IRQ holders are normal and they will turn into PCI IRQ holders when running in APM mode. The VIA 4in1 drivers are somehow buggy enough to cause problems. Try to install them in a single step manner.
On WIN98SE you won't have to install everything. The IRQ routing drivers don't necessarily have to be installed, neither are the VIA chipset registry function drivers that important. The AGP drivers are only needed on the P3 not the K7. The FIC SD11 has its AGP bus apart from the VIA stuff (I assume you did install the AMD driver). The Bus mastering drivers for VIA controllers are known to cause problems with CD recording software and burners (e.g. burning works, CD is empty afterwards or error messages like "Commands not issued in sequence", CD creation failed). Going with WIN98 default drivers as much as possible first will make more sense. The Promise RAID is a constant source of different truble if you don't keep track of the newer drivers. Try installing the system without striping and check if you can go through setups using the normal on-board controller not the RAID stuff.

So much for now.

Good luck, Alegria

------------------
The pump don't work, 'cause the vandals took the handle...
Bob Dylan

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