Where Intel leads Via will follow.

[The PIT]

Saw this snippet.
Some manufacturers spoke of bug in the chip record and from this resulting delays with the distribution. Others became more concrete and acknowledged that the KT133 runs unstably if it is equipped with 3 PC133 Memory Modules - particularly with three different RAMs -. Some saw the causes in the supply of current , others in the BIOS. And VIA already the memory interface had limited opposite the KX133 something, by now are possible instead of eight only six memory banks.
Only comment Whoops

[paulcs]

It's interesting. Intel appears to be mired in internal strife, with both the CPU and motherboard divisions angry with the chipset division. (I believe this rumor. Wouldn't you be upset? I'd be really mad.) The chipset division, along with corporate, seems hellbent on leading the entire world down a path littered with technical problems and solutions that nobody wants.

Intel's novel (some call it brilliant) short term solution to their many woes: re-release the Katmai.

AMD, while designing a new chipset due to be launched sometime in the near future, still appears hesitant to get into the chipset market.

Things seem more chaotic than ever at VIA, and I'm sure everyone here has read stories of warehouses in Taiwan with large stocks of KX133-based motherboards that will never see the light of day. We're all familiar with the driver issues with the new VIA chipsets and the G400, but their have also been issues with the GeForce, the Soundblaster Live, and some NIC's. What's gone on with recent driver releases, the up again/down again 4.22 4in1's, registry-corrupting installation issues, misreports on VIA's website that that certain drivers were compatible with W2K when they were not, etc. doesn't inspire confidence. Rumors that AMD is concerned about VIA seem reasonable to me.

And what the hell is going on with VIA's dual CPU motherboards? (This is a rhetorical question.)

I've read several times that motherboard manufacturers are downright angry with ALi for not resolving technical issues related to previous chipsets. I really can't editorialize on this because I'm not familiar with the issues.

Sis appears to be having technical problems with their Athlon chipset, and these problems are causing substantial delays. I really thought this was a golden opportunity for Sis to re-enter the chipset market with a bang.

Where are the prototypes for DDR compatible motherboards?

I really wish AMD would stop being so caprious about getting into the chipset business. They seem to have the confidence of investors, OEM's (maybe even Dell!), and consumers. I realize they are in a tricky polictical situation, but it might be time to take the proverbial bull by the horns and fix this, once and for all.

Sorry about the rant.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Pace]

Hmm - yes, interesting!

And Paul(CS), do you mind if I ask non-rhetorically : What the hell is going on with VIA's dual CPU motherboards?

Another point about AMD entering the chipset arena I wanted to add is that for all the performance of the Athlon, the VIA chipsets have held AMD (and Cyrix to a lesser extent ) back in the performance stakes. When comparing the P3 to Athlon it's always usually very close with the new TB's having the upper hand. When you put an Intel chip on a VIA motherboard though it gets well beaten by both the old and TB Athlons - i.e. AMD need to bring out a high-performance chipset, preferably with compatibility and stability and not rely on VIA's chipsets which are largely based on their 'Value PC' market experience.

And with VIA bringing out their new CPUs for the low-end some time soon then they could even decide to compete with AMD at the top level - and where would AMD be for chipsets then? Just a thought!

Paul.

[HedsSpaz]

I agree guys, and Paul, I for one muchly appreciate your rant. AMD needs to open their eyes and come to the realization that VIA is never going to provide a solution that will do the Athlon justice. They already screwed up the KX133 with compatability problems out the wazoo. The KT133 is screwed up before it's even out there. Their entire history of chipsets is just one strike after another against them. As for SiS and ALi, well, we shall see. They may yet provide something usefull.

AMD needs to realize though that they can't rely on any of those companies. They did an admirable job with their 750/756 chipset. And to be honest, most people are eagerly anticipating their 760 chipset. Whether they like it or not AMD is being forced into the chipset market because nobody else can get it right. They need to get their collective asses in gear and do it now instead of waiting until later when it's too late.

Ian

[isochar]

"They need to get their collective asses in gear and do it now instead of waiting until later when it's too late."

That AMD chipset isn't supposed to be released until Q4 2000 as I've heard. VIA's DDR chipset is supposedly delayed until Q1 2001.

The only ace that AMD may have is the Samurui chipset from Micron... assuming that it's released sometime Q3 2000. Funny thing is that the chipset will be an Ace for Intel as well because it's rumored to have P3 support too.

If Micron doesn't have an on-time appearance, Intel will have Willie out Q3/Q4. Which means they'll be the speed kings for the high, mid, and low end for a good few months. (Assuming that RDRAM prices are reasonable by that time)

I still can't believe that Intel will make P3's the low-end chip! They might even be able to out-price an Athlon? That would definately be weird...

[Pace]

Yes, but if Micron put out a chipset equal, slightly ahead or even behind Intel's high-performance chipsets (and I am including both BX and i820, btw) then it'll still be better than VIA's offering and will make the Athlon the clear performance leader - and hopefully with no compatibility issues. Even if it does run the P3 well isochar - the P3 can't match the Athlon on an equal base.

Willamatte will be a different story though.

I have never bought myself and AMD chip - the Athlon was tempting but the motherboards put me off. Intel are in a different class as far as compatibility goes (and so they should be - they should be 100%). AMD could emulate that though - and that would make them a lot healthier - and selling chipsets would help the finances too.

And agreeing with Ian (who agreed with me!) - VIA ain't the answer. ALi and Sis will never compete with Intel - AMD need to either take it upon themselves or get somebody else to do it, and do it RIGHT

Paul (Are we making this thread confusing with 2 Paul's? ).

[isochar]

Actually, I personally have both processors (p3600eb on a BX & a k7 750 on a KX133)

And I would definately have to agree that VIA is, and will probably, never be the answer for either processor. (For Athlon's VIA is a *temporary* solution =)

Doing it right is "half the battle" =) The other half is releasing it in a timely manner...

Oh, and as far as Athlon Vs P3... the Athlon can beat it clock for clock. However, what I was bringing up was that once Williamette is out consumers will be able to pick up a Coppermine for the price of a Celeron! (Assuming Intel follows the path that they claim) That should make the Thunderbird's price/performance ratio disconcerting in comparison.

BTW, Cyrix 3's are a joke =P

[Taz]

Just some thoughts.

Intel have historically made the best chipsets for their own processors some of this may have something to do with them controlling the standards. AGP, PCI, USB etc, all follow Intels specifictaions so there is no excuse for them to get it wrong.

AMD are in a position to ensure compatability between their chipsets and processors and assuming Intel release the correct info about the buses should be compatible there as well.

VIA have had a lot of help from AMD for their chipset so there is no reason why they shouldn't be as good as or better than AMD's. Intel obviously aren't too keen on helping VIA produce chipsets for their processors yet they have managed to be on par with their Athlon chipsets. This suprises me, I would expect their Athlon chipsets to be better than their PIII counterparts considering the help they have been given.

For AMD to really suceed they need to make a greater impression in the business market. Large corporates are more concerned with compatablity and stability than performance and so the major PC vendors have stuck to Intel processors on boards with Intel chipsets. I think they will taken more seriously if they can produce their own chipsets instead of relying on third parties.

[Himself]

I think AMD is playing the chipset thing the right way, they ARE developing their own chipset but are making noises like they don't want to. I think this is to encourage VIA and co. to pick up the slack, otherwise they might not even bother entering this new market. VIA makes for a rather low target to try and beat, like them or not, they encourage competition just because they are so mediocre. I really don't think AMD is in the position to fight with VIA for control of the socket A market, before there even is one. I think they are keeping it cool for now, they want to provide a reference platform for things like SMP and DDR, but they don't want to have to do everything themselves when they are just starting out with a new platform. Give it a year or so and some success for socket A and you may expect AMD to get big on chipsets.

Just my $02

[paulcs]

I think you're right. I'm not happy about it, but I think you're absolutely right.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net