The beautiful case from hell...

[Riddek]

I recently bought an Apex Supercase ATX Full Tower and was amazed at the seemingly fine quality of construction. There was ample room to install all my components and the fold out motherboard mounting panel made the installation so much easier.

But when it came to installing my PCI cards things went sour. None of my cards lined up with the slots on the back of the case! There was an 1/8 inch gap between the card and the slot at the top.(the bottom seemed to be okay)

I undid all the screws in the mobo and mounting panel, trying to slide the (Asus P3B-F) motherboard back as much as possible, to no avail. Either the mobo mounting panel or the back of the case was built skewed.

Of course my PCI cards were the last thing I installed so I wasted hours of work carefully installing all my other components, rearranging cables for maximum airflow etc.

So after carefully uninstalling and repackaging all my components, I've come to the conclusion that I do NOT want to go through this again. I've had enough of Apex's less than impressive quality control. I'm going to return the case tomorrow and get something more reliable.

Maybe I'm the unlucky "millionith" customer who got a lemon case, but I had to search high and low to find the ONE retailer in town who sells Apex cases. Maybe there's a reason....

Can anyone please recommend a reputable case manufacturer? I need a case with 2 external 3.5" bays, 4 external 5.25" bays, (preferably) a 300 watt power supply and lots of space inside. I'm impressed with the Antec SX1030 case, but don't care for the plastic door/cover on the front.

Thanks,
Riddek.

[Paulr]

Hiya,
About six months ago I too was looking for a new case.
It was difficult, there were so many to choose from, but 95% of these I would have to choose from picture alone.
Hardly any retailers around me had any form of case there in stock for me to look at.
Most could get me any case in I wanted, but should I have decided I didn't like it I'd have been stuck with a re-stocking fee.
In the end I went for the Supermicro SC701-S.
This case doesn't quite meet your requirments, it has 2x External 3.5" bays, but only 3x External 5.25" bays.
The build quality is excellent, from the second you take the case lid off you can see it has been well thought out, nothing blocks anything else, everything is very easy to get your hands on.
A test I like to do is remove the case lid and try and 'rock' what's left, this case is very solid & sturdy.
You might want to see if Supermicro do a case that matches the spec your looking for.

[Wombat]

I don't mean to be insulting Riddek, but are you sure that you used the right set of mounting holes for your particular form factor of motherboard?

[Riddek]

Wombat,
Yup, the holes line up perfectly. All the PCI cards line up with the slots horizontally, but there's about 1/16th inch gap from the back of each card (to the slot at the back of the case) at the bottom where they plug into the mobo and a 1/8th inch gap at the top. It's as if the motherboard wasn't mounted level.

[spoogenet]

I'm kinda partial to the In-Win Q500.

Unfortunately, it doesn't exactly meet your specs. It's got 1 3 1/2" bay for the floppy, and 5 5 1/4" bays externally. Plus it's got 5 3 1/2" internal bays.

Good case, well built, nice design. If you could do with only the 1 external 3 1/2" bay, then it's a good buy.

b

[HedsSpaz]

I have an Aopen HX08 and it's a great case. 2 external 3 1/2" bays, 3 internal 3 1/2" bays, and 5 external 5 1/4" bays and it's very roomy. My only problem is that the mounting points for fans are kinda slim. I've also always heard good things about the SuperMicro SC750A.

Ian

[Riddek]

OK, here's how our melodramatic story ended.(I'm sure you're all waiting with baited breath)

The next day I went case shopping before I returned the Apex case. I must have checked a half dozen retailers, checking out a dozen or more makes/models. None of them suited my needs exactly, not like the Apex case.

By this time I had "cooled down" somewhat and was thinking more objectively, so I re-evaluated the whole situation. Dr Mordrid liked the Apex cases so much he did a complete review on them last year.(I believe he currently has several of them in his lab) I have heard other people on this forum speak highly of these cases as well. Other than the motherboard/PCI card alignment problem, this case is exactly what I'm looking for.

I decided to give Apex another shot. After all, what are the odds of getting two defective cases in a row? I returned the Apex case and swapped it for another. I got it home and installed my motherboard. Then I crossed my fingers as I slid my Marvel card in the AGP slot. A perfect fit! It aligned with the slot in the back of the case beautifully. The same with all my PCI cards, they all fit like a glove. After that everything went together like clockwork. The end result was a beautiful system and one happy camper.

The moral of the story? Everyone deserves a second chance. People make mistakes, even hardware manufacturers. If I had held a grudge and wrote Apex off, I would have had to settle for a less than ideal hardware setup with a different case manufacturer. Apex gets a thumbs up from me!

[spoogenet]

Glad it worked out for you! It's always nice to see people happy with something.

Unfotunately even the best of manufacturers still get their share of defective products out in the world just because of manufacturing variation and sampling. They can't catch every problem everywhere. That's why they have return policies and warranties.

b

[labrador]

Yes, it is hard to determine loyality to brands based on selective experiences. However, this wouldn't be such a hot issue if PC component makers used decent Quality Control.

In other industries Quality Control is over 50% of the effort in getting reliable product out the door. For example, companies like Heinz can make ketchup that always tastes the same, no matter what time of the year the tomatoes were obtained, nor where in the world the tomatoes are grown. We take this for granted and don't really think much about it, but it is an accomplishment that isn't free. Heinz ketchup tastes the same in Italy in 1995 as it will in California in 1999. They reach this goal through top notch quality control.

In the PC industry, components are built quickly and tested somewhat, but not to the extent of the standards you'll see in industries such as food processing. And that is pretty sad. As a result, we have systems with crappy cases (cut my finger good on one), power supplies with voltage fluxing by over 10%, motherboards lasting only 2 years, memory that can't do the job in certain situations, and lots of chaos in graphics end of things. Hell, you can't even get Tech Support for any motherboard other than Tyan. This speaks much for the attitude towards the customer of the components. The industry is exciting, and having forums like this one is great so we can all help each other out, but we have to acknowledge that the PC hardware industry is immature compared to where it has to go. Now if the businesses would only stay in operation long enough, perhaps they would show maturity.

[spoogenet]

Ok, this is long, so bear with me. And it may not be too coherent, cuz it's too early and I've been working too much.

Well, yes and no. To address some of your issues:

Well, there are two ways of viewing the maturity issue. One is that they just aren't up to speed with QC. Possible. The other is that, being a very consumer-driven market with near perfect competition (economically speaking), there is little profit margin and they must sell the cheapest of anybody. This often means cutting corners somewhere.

That is also one way of viewing the QC issue. Here's another to think about.

I'm sure Heinz ketchup does not taste the same if it is manufactured in different places. Consider whether you would really notice the difference short of doing a side-by-side comparison.

However QC is a very big issue in the industry. First off, the design must be made such that the product will still function within allowable tolerances. If you're designing power supplies, for instance, it must be capable of putting out 5V +/- some% even with normal manufacturing variation of the elements inside of it.

The tolerance is specified by the industry, and the motherboard manufacturer says that it'll work at 5V +/- same% and designs there's to allow for that variation.

Then you've got the manufacturing process. Let's just say you've got a 6 sigma process. This means that you will have very few defects per unit, and consequently per million, but is very expensive. So you may opt for a 3 sigma process and rely more heavily upon testing. However you can't afford to test every unit, so you use statistical sampling techniques that give you a good idea of what's going out the door. Companies do this then evaluate how much it will cost them in returns, etc. If the returns are too expensive, then they may shift their process to the more expensive 6 sigma because, afterall, it will cost less than having a 3 sigma process that results in too many returns, or too expensive testing.

What this all means is that, even with reasonable QC, defective units still get out the door. If they're selling 2 million cases a year, maybe, then they really can't afford to test every single case to make sure it meets their high quality standards. They design their process to be, maybe, 6 sigma, which means very few defective cases. Then they randomly sample a limited number for testing to make sure that they are within limits. Keep in mind that the process may also shit +/- 1.5 sigma (typical), which will raise the number of defective units. However with a 6 sigma process this will still be low.

To sum it all up, even with good QC defective units still get out the door. It's unfortunate, but it happens to everybody. Even the highest quality standards still allow some defects to pass. You can't test for everything, and you can't always test every single unit. That's why warranties and return policies exist, to protect you from this.

Sorry it's been so long, but that's the gist of how it works, in a nutshell.

b