There goes 3dfx...

[alessandro]

Did you realise that Nvidia is becoming little by little like 3dfx 3 years ago.
For a start they will change they product life cycle from 6 months to 1 year and then ....3dFX clone company.
I think they will have the same end !!!!

[This message has been edited by alessandro (edited 16 December 2000).]

[superfly]

I do agree that they're bound to screw up sometime.

At the pace that current(and future)video cards are heading,with consumers wanting something much faster every year,they're bound to hit very real limits(in manufacturing if not in desing).

Sure you can desing a chip with 50 million or more transistors,but the question is can it be actually built as to be relatively affordable enough for most people to buy,especially since Nvidia has always been oposed to multichip desings.

If that's not hard enough,they(as with any and all general purpose video cards,no matter who makes them)can only sell those high end cards for only so much,or run the risk of pricing itself right out of the market,even if it happends to be the best card out there

It makes the cpu wars look like a walk in the park by comparison since they can use the same basic core for a couple of years before having to build something completely new.

[isochar]

Two more thoughts:
-even if nvidia screws up ONCE in a few years, they'll quickly solve it. on the other hand, how many times has matrox screwed up?(OpenGL, late delivery of all their recent video cards) ATI? (rage 128, maxx, drivers in general)

matrox and ati are consistently screwing up. they have to execute their business in the same manner nvidia is: perfect. otherwise they'll take the same road as 3dfx or just become a provider for a niche market (like 3dlabs, kyro, etc.)

-it seems matrox has already lost the gaming market. i've read through the threads at other forums, and it's almost unanimous that the mass-market graphics card business is a duopoly: nvidia vs ati. if this sentiment is generally accepted, matrox is in a worse position than ati...

[This message has been edited by isochar (edited 16 December 2000).]

[superfly]

About the only people who like the news, would be game developers since it reduces compatibility testing on their end of things.

Although they will probably never admit that publicly.. .

As far as Nvidia's influence in the existing DX8 api(and all later versions),i don't think it really matters that much anymore for 3 reasons.

For one the DX8 api has enough features already to be able to generate the images we saw in the X-box demos,so at least for the next couple of years it won't be the DX8 api that will be holding video card makers back.

the other is that even when the time comes when Microsoft decides to start working in subsequent versions of DX(9,10,etc..),the feature list of what they want to acheive with it is known to video card makers well in advance,probably as much as 1 year in advance .

Has anyone noticed how it look a lot longer to release the final version of DX8 than any previous version?.

It's likely than an even more advanced version would take even longer to develop,IMO.

[alessandro]

What about the two Canadian companies joining forces!!!!!!!!!!
Matrox+Ati Vs Nvidia???

[This message has been edited by alessandro (edited 16 December 2000).]

[isochar]

alessandro,

i think that's a smart suggestion, but it does have some drawbacks.

as i mentioned above, i admire nvidia for their excellent execution. their near-flawless operation is going to be make it hard on both matrox and ati. nvidia will probably get to the point where the ftc will say they are a monopoly. (approx. 70% market share in all market segments)

*Pure spectulation* ie. brainstorming

the gaming market is the tip of the iceberg for nvidia. everything will fall into place from this point on. nvidia chipsets will become the defacto standard, and once that happens they'll make a proprietary format which will force other card makers to be "nvidia compatible" - ati and matrox will be battling an uphill struggle at first in the gaming market.

ie. once sound blaster became the standard, every other company had to be sound blaster compatible. intel is the processor standard, that's why amd is having such a hard time with OEMs (doing a good job though)

matrox should go public - get a huge influx of cash and do some massive r&d, marketing, etc. however, it could put them in a position for a takeover.

this sounds like it should go in the soap box now...

[alessandro]

Isochar,

I agree with what you said but i've got a bad feeling that the next "3dfx" will be Matrox. NVidia has apparently already raided Matrox's engineers, like they did Aureal's, so i fear than either ATI or NVidia will be looking for Matrox Technology!!!!
I hope NOT!!!

[This message has been edited by alessandro (edited 16 December 2000).]

[isochar]

days like this are why i want to become a business major

[Himself]

"I've got a but feeling"

LOL

[alessandro]

That's what happens if you are posting in 3 different forums in the same time

[paulcs]

I'm not sure what the anti-trust ramifications are, but I think we have to keep in mind that this is *not* a merger. 3dfx appears to be liquidating, and NVIDIA has purchased 3dfx's core assets: their name and other trademarks (Voodoo, etc.), patents and patents pending, chip inventory, etc. In addition, all litigation will be dismissed. 3dfx will still exist as a corporate entity after the sale.

Brian Burke has stated in interviews today that NVIDIA has not gotten 3dfx's employees out of the deal, although I suspect many will be sending their resumes to NVIDIA in the next couple of days.

I assume 3dfx (or "The Company Formerly Known as 3dfx") will further liquidate, creditors will be paid off, and whatever is left will be divided amongst stockholders.

This smacks of a fire sale before the fire: 3dfx going out of business, or getting out of the graphics business, without going bankrupt. NVIDIA gets Gigapixel's patents, a lot of current and future technology, some nifty names, the dropping of a costly lawsuit, and one less competitor.

NVIDIA will not double in size overnight. As this is not a merger, I'm willing to bet the antitrust ramifications are different than if NVIDIA and 3dfx had melded into one gigantic company.

(Nor will NVIDIA have responsibility for supporting the current Voodoo line of videocards. This is probably really bad news for current 3dfx users.)

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 16 December 2000).]

[alessandro]

....does this mean that Nvidia will become a Gfx card maker not just a chipset maker????????
Watch out Creative,ELSA etc!!!!!!!

[paulcs]

No, it doesn't. 3dfx sold off that part of the business a few weeks ago.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[superfly]

A really disturbing though has come across my mind relating the purchase,it is a less obvious reason,but one more to think about.

As everyone here knows,rambus is considering legal action against nvidia because its products make use of DDR sdram.

In fact,if you think about it,almost all of their graphics cards,upcoming motherboard chipsets and even the X-BOX itself,depend on DDR sdram.

Rambus can't go after nvidia because they use DDR memory,which is made by other companies anyway,but they have stated on more than one occasion,that even the simple fact that if the video card chip/motherboard chipset is built to support DDR,the company who made it can be legally prosecuted(according to them anyways).

Could the added IP that Nvidia acquired with the partial purchase of 3dfx's assets,make rambus re-evaluate their legal options against Nvidia since it makes the process quite a bit more complex for rambus to prove any IP violations from Nvidia,after all,they now own the gigapixel and scalable arquitecture tecnologies and all of the tech that was going into 3dfx's next gen cards,and that tech doesn't necessarily depend on needing DDR sdram to make it work.


If Nvidia settled on only making video card chips,i don't think that rambus would bother with legal action against them,but since they have much more ambitious plans and none of those involve rambus(especially on motherboards),well...you get the idea.


If rambus wins,this could set a dangerous legal precedent,and potentially hurt not only Nvidia,but also ATI and matrox as well.

Your thoughts....

[Himself]

Just look at how quickly the sound card market went to crap, the companies willing to take on Creative today are few and far between. Why is AMD now the only company willing to compete with Intel when a few years ago there was Cyrix, Rise and IDT?
I wonder how many video card companies will remain in the market by this time next year?
As for price, I think the MX shows that NVIDIA is not going to leave that market available for anybody. By the time NVIDIA screws up, and it doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon with NV20 just around the corner, who will be left around to pick up the pieces?