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**JackYi** · 23 March 2001, 07:17

Yeah and thanks to game developers, constant fps can no longer be seen with about 'any' game. Say, remember the says of Quake2 when 25fps was acceptable?

**xortam** · 23 March 2001, 10:09

Originally posted by Kosh Naranek:
... I remember when a game/prg came out in version 1.0 and it all worked perfectly, now it comes out and after a while you have to dnload a HUGE update just to get it stable ...

That's the way the whole SW industry has gone in recent years. If you're a public company, there's pressure to get the product out, grab the revenues, and fix it in the next release. I'm very quality conscious and wouldn't release code until its rock solid. Its a lot easier to be able to move onto new development and not have to worry about your old buggy code coming back to haunt you. Unfortunately, that doesn't fit well into today's business model.

**The PIT** · 23 March 2001, 11:42

I'm sure some poeple are quality conscious. However in the real world quality is often only lip service that companies spout to get an order or a foothold in a market.
Quality in most cases is a buzz word, like team building group hugs etc. It's just window dressing.
The gfarce3 is already late so no doubt in marketing someone decided it had to go and overruled poeple further down the line. Sitting at your desk and saying we can't ship this will eventually have only one result. The big boot and they'll get someone else in who'll tow the line.
I'll tell you theres nothing more satisfying telling your boss that you shouldn't ship the product he over rules you and they all get rejected.

az · 23 March 2001, 11:54

pit, i doubt nvidia is working like this... to produce graphics chips that complex you need good engineers, and good engineers are always sought by the competition, so nvidia will be careful not to make one of them go...

AZ

**xortam** · 23 March 2001, 12:15

Originally posted by The PIT:
... Quality in most cases is a buzz word, like team building group hugs etc. It's just window dressing.

When I refer to quality, I'm talking about quality inside and out. 1) The level of quality of the customer experience. Does the product perform reliably? Is it responsive? Does it meet its product specs? Is the documentation clear and complete? and 2) The quality of the SW from an internal engineering standpoint. Is the architecture well thought out to support enhancements to the product? Is the code well structured and documented to allow future developers to easily understand and support the product? Are design decisions and bug fixes well documented to aid future support? etc.

... I'll tell you theres nothing more satisfying telling your boss that you shouldn't ship the product he over rules you and they all get rejected.

There's nothing satisfying about seeing your company fail.

**The PIT** · 23 March 2001, 15:53

Az. Nvidia missed the last product cycle if I'm correct and just produced an overclocked chip the gts ultra. Therefore the preasure was on in a sense.
Xortam I hear what you're saying however from my own work experiance quality always goes out the door when the shove comes to push. I've worked for five companies and only one of them ever thought really thought about quality. I know work for a University they haven't clue about anything to be honest.
Oh the last thing
"There's nothing satisfying about seeing your company fail."
One of the reasons why I left. But when I went back to have a chat with my old mates the bosses face was a picture when he saw me looking at the rejects.
I think the company still going as I see there equipment in shops and banks that I visit.

**xortam** · 23 March 2001, 16:25

Originally posted by The PIT:
... I hear what you're saying however from my own work experience quality always goes out the door when the shove comes to push ...

That was my point ... In recent years (five years or so) there's been more of a push to get product out the door and capture revenue (BTW, the expression is "if push came to shove"). This is an evolution of the SW industry as its become more of a business and competitive pressures have increased. This push has accelerated and in the last few years the industry has been working at "internet time". A public company is going to be under more pressure from stock holders and analysts to increase revenue while a private company, while still needing to be competitive, isn't under quite as much pressure. Customers have been trained to be more accepting of these quality inadequacies and companies have refined how much resources they put into supporting their customers to make sure the expenses are justified in their business model. Now we pay on a graduated scale for ever increasing levels of support and have access to knowledge bases and user forums for self-help support. The times, they are a changing.

**The PIT** · 23 March 2001, 16:46

xortam Sorry for the slightly wrong quote been on the cider to much. Software companies could argue I suppose (Although badly) that since you don't own the software just the right to use it that you must expect some bugs. We have learn't to live with it. Why we put up with it with software I don't know. If we leased a car from a company and the doors kept falling off we wouldn't stand for it and if the you borrowed a car from a friend which had the same faults you would decline to use it.
The computing world is more complex though and theres no way a company can test for every situtation. The quality what you then need is in the after service, Email web pages forums and this is sadly lacking.

**Maggi** · 23 March 2001, 17:07

Originally posted by xortam:
That was my point ... In recent years (five years or so) there's been more of a push to get product out the door and capture revenue ...

May I nail that down to MS releasing Window95 a bit too early ?

I really hate Billy for starting that habit and most of all that he got away with it !!!

**Maggi** · 23 March 2001, 17:21

Design flaw in actual GeForce 3 chips

Already heard about it ?

NVidia is pulling back all delivered GF3 chips, cos they found another design flaw in their silicon ....

Talking about quality, eh ?

www.3dconcept.ch has word of it.

Ein offenbar gravierender Fehler macht aus den bereits produzierten
GeForce3-Chips Elektronikschrott. Die Chipversion "A3" bzw. "A4", die
bereits von diversen Kartenherstellern auf Testsamples verbaut wurden,
weisst zu viele Fehler auf. Bestätigt wurde der Fehler aus den Umkreisen
der Hersteller Gainward sowie Leadtek. Eine weitere Verzögerung mit
NVidia's Prunkstück steht bevor.

it seems that they need a 6th revision of their chip and the release is most likely pushed back to April.

Cheese,
Maggi

[edit]sorry for that typo ... [/edit]

[This message has been edited by Maggi (edited 26 March 2001).]

**The PIT** · 23 March 2001, 17:28

Sounds like the typical modern day habit of rushing a release. Perhaps they were feeling a little preasured about not having a true new chip.

**Maggi** · 26 March 2001, 05:02

Does anybody have a clue why and since when that site is down or can you guys reach it ?

http://www.3dcondept.ch/

az · 26 March 2001, 05:22

seems it's not in t-online's dns, because i receive an error instantly... a few days ago it was still up and running...

AZ

**[GDI]Raptor** · 26 March 2001, 09:26

Well, well, well!!!

How about never releasing that chip nVidia??

Perhaps it could be a good idea to give it a better price first....?

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- [GDI]Raptor

Announcement

Design flaw in actual GeForce 3 chips

Design flaw in actual GeForce 3 chips

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