Excellent HIFI CD Player for sale

[Umfriend]

This is common. The circuitry and chipsets to go straight from DSD to analog are more expensive than going to PCM and then to analog. You almost have to go high end Sony or an audiophile brand to get true DSD to analog these days.

Yeah, but the Shanling is AU$3995 (some US$2900) while my Denon DVD2900 is less then US$1000 (way less) and does have (AFAIK) direct DSD -> Analog conversion.

On the other hand, AFAICS, all current Denon models use a PCMxxxx DAC as opposed to DSDxxxx DACs and it appears to me they still do DSD -> Analog...

[Taz]

now THAT is a CD player!!

Looks like a pimped Michel Gyrodec

[Jammrock]

The PCM1738 cost approx. 5.25$, according to the TI website, which means they cost less than five in practice. And 12$ for a capacitor is AFTER markup, Jamm.

Which means the consumer is paying $20 per capacitor after markup when put inside a consumer box

[gt40]

Just went through my Digi-key catalog
Don't know how anyone could possible pay more than $5.00 a cap (other than possibly in the power supply section) especially when at quantities over 100 the price almost drops in half or better.

There is a great deal you pay for engineering and limited production runs, but a good quality, mass produced player is much better cost per performance wise.

I put some of this stuff in the same category as monster cable.

[Jammrock]

Look up Auricaps:

http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=auricaps&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

...V-caps:

http://www.google.com/search?hs=5fS&hl=en&lr=&client=opera&rls=en&q=v-caps&btnG=Search

...and other high end Metallized Polypropylene capacitors and you'll see that they ain't cheap, even in low voltage, low capacitence varieties.

As for whether they do or don't make a difference, capacitors are one of the only components that pretty much everyone agrees makes a difference in audio reproduction. Meaning crappy caps produce crappy sound. For that matter, crappy caps can cause problems with most electronics. Razer, famous gaming mice, has gone as far as putting a cover on the caps on their upcoming audio card to keep RF leakage out of the audio stage caps:



And as anyone who has done electronics testing with caps knows, the top of the capacitor can is highly sensitive to noise. Simply hook up an ocsilliscope to the top of a cap can in any A/V stage of electronics and you'll get all sorts of noise and signals showing up. Thus "audio grade" caps typically don't have traditional can construction with both leads on one side.

Jammrock

[TransformX]

Reality check:
Take a normal person, living in normal house, having kids, mortgage or whatever money drinking horror so he/she can't go and redo the house. Now bring two audio systems to that person's house.
One system will be a Denon/Yamaha for up to 1000 USD (Any configuration of amp + cd + tuner) and a set of decent speakers (5 + sub or 5 bigger ones without a sub) for up to 2000 USD. Totaly system setup is up to 3K.
The second system will cost at least 5 times more, up to whatever.
You'll find out that: 1. The more expensive system will deliver little more over the cheap one.
2. In order for the expensive system to deliver more, the person will have to either remodel and probably redesign his/her listening room, or simply move to another apartment.
Bottom line, my current audio system, for about 1200 USD is more than adequate for most normal homes out there. Yes, I'd love having Rotel instead of my Yamaha setup and some decent electro-static quads instead of my Wharfedales, but seriously, for at least 20 times more money, I'll have no more than twice as good sound. If I was so much of a freak, I'd get a pair of Sennheiser 595.

[Jon P. Inghram]

I've got a pair of Sennheiser HD-600's at home, along with two headphone amps...

Of course, they don't really sound that much better than my $15 Koss KSC-75's, they're mainly just more comfortable. The amps are pretty much just fancy volume controls, although there is a slight technical excuse for using one with the HD-600's since they're higher impedence than most headphones. And I use regular old cheap RCA cables, and frequently visit http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/ which is about as diametrically opposed to sites like Head-Fi as can be possible. Oh, and when I put music on my iRiver IFP-895 I use Vorbis at ~96 kbps.

[Mehen]

Anyone that needs convincing as to an average income family with two kids and having a hifi stereo, come to my house and listen. System has been accumulated over probably 20 years, had everything been bought new, would total somewhere in the neighborhood of 20k.

And if we are talking hifi, we are not talking 5.1. If you spent that 3k you could get a really good hifi system (used) - 2 spkr stereo. Where the cost problem does lie though, is having separate systems for 5.1 theatre and just 2spkr stereo for audio.

One thing I should make clear though, goin the $$ 2-spkr stereo route IS NOT for everyone. If you are serious about your music, a cheaper system simply won't suffice. My stereo set-up is worth about 1.5k right now, and I absolutely love it, and would put it up against a wide variety of systems up to even fairly high prices but.... as compared to my dad's... it's a whole different ball game.

[Jammrock]

Reality check:
Take a normal person, living in normal house, having kids, mortgage or whatever money drinking horror so he/she can't go and redo the house. Now bring two audio systems to that person's house.
One system will be a Denon/Yamaha for up to 1000 USD (Any configuration of amp + cd + tuner) and a set of decent speakers (5 + sub or 5 bigger ones without a sub) for up to 2000 USD. Totaly system setup is up to 3K.
The second system will cost at least 5 times more, up to whatever.
You'll find out that: 1. The more expensive system will deliver little more over the cheap one.
2. In order for the expensive system to deliver more, the person will have to either remodel and probably redesign his/her listening room, or simply move to another apartment.
Bottom line, my current audio system, for about 1200 USD is more than adequate for most normal homes out there. Yes, I'd love having Rotel instead of my Yamaha setup and some decent electro-static quads instead of my Wharfedales, but seriously, for at least 20 times more money, I'll have no more than twice as good sound. If I was so much of a freak, I'd get a pair of Sennheiser 595.

No one has said go break the bank to buy a home theater. Well, a salesman might, but no one here. I bought all my stereo equipment pre-marriage/mortgage/kids, and since that time the only piece of stereo equipment I've bought was ... a pair of Sennheiser HD-595's and an Echo Digital Audio Indigo.

That being said, for the average listener, a $500 "home theater in a box" from your local electronics super store is sufficient. And if I had to buy a home theater on my current budget that's what I'd get. I'd rather have decent sound than no sound at all, or a broken piggy bank. However, a smart buyer with a slightly larger budget can get an exceptionally good sounding stereo for under $2500, and if you buy used or settle for good comprimising mix around $1000-$1500.

But ... if you have very discrete listening tastes and a huge budget, well, there's nothing wrong on splurging on things you enjoy, right? Or slowly upgrading existing components as budget allows. Just depends on your tastes and what you can afford.

Jammrock

[Mehen]

But ... if you have very discrete listening tastes and a huge budget, well, there's nothing wrong on splurging on things you enjoy, right? Or slowly upgrading existing components as budget allows. Just depends on your tastes and what you can afford.

Exactly. And its nice when its shiny with lots of lights too and looks like it might be something martians invade with.

[TransformX]

One of my points was that even a multi thousands of dollars sound system might sound crap in the wrong environment (badly sound designed livingroom).

[Umfriend]

Typically, buyers of multi thousands systems will have multi hundred thousand to milion homes, so the living room is bound to be rather nice for the setup. In any case, I challenge you to find an environment where a $1200 system will sound better than any $2400 system. So yeah, if budget constraint is an issue, don't go flat out broke one a hifi. Same with cars, watches and stakes. If not that much so, there will be a $2400 system that will definately be more pleasing to the ear than any $1200 system.

Dang, I paid Eur 900 for my speakers alone (1997) and 675 for my little amp (1998).....

[az]

If you are serious about your music, a cheaper system simply won't suffice.

Ahem! High-Enders often confuse Music with Sound. If you are serious about the Music, you learn to play an instrument, go listen to it live, or can enjoy the music even on a system with less-than-sterling sound reproduction.

[Umfriend]

Yep, it is true that I can enjoy music on my car stereo as well. Even though I have all this disturbance of the sound of the car to go with it and the car stereo sucks quality wise. Still, if I _want_ to _listen_ to music, my stereo at home sure gives a bigger bang for the buck.

[TransformX]

Funny how some people who are so obsessed about sound, go and buy low quality recordings..