Haig's answers and my reply about the PD5 G200 beta

[Haig]

Glenbrook, the reasons are obvious as to why no one responds to a bug report, especially when the driver is public.

As for me being a PR man, that is not my role nor do I want it. I can take all the criticism you can throw at me when it's aimed at Matrox.

I was referring to your comment about my childish behaviour. Someone with a childish behaviour is one that constantly complains that he/she doesn't have what the other person has. It is not someone who is trying to explain how things are.

Haig

[Helevitia]

Manifest,

1. You act like there was supposed to be a beta sign up just for you. You haven't even been here long enough to spit on yourself. Keep in mind that you wouldn't walk up to a new group of people and start bitching at them about your graphics card. At best you might say Hello and slowly get in to the conversation. If you think it's any different here, than you are wrong. Yes it is true that the group of people here are tight with each other so when someone that has absoultely no respect built up comes in and bitches about the same old shit we've heard a gazillion times, we will bitch back. You have no respect around here and now I doubt you ever will. I'm sure people will start ignoring you soon and your opinions will be worthless. I know, I know, you don't care, right? That is good because I for one want you to leave. You don't know how to start off on the right foot and work your way in, so I don't really see any room for you here.

2. What kind of stupid dumbass question is that? They came out to help us, not let people like you who think they are so ****ing smart criticize them.

3. Once again, you think you have the right to criticize who was picked for the beta and the only thing you have the right for is to pick your nose.

4. Damn! you are just so ****ing ignorant! Now there is lack of talent because you said so. HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

5. I AM NOT A BETA TESTER! I OWN A G200! I AM BUYING A G400! YOU SUCK!

I can almost hear your response now. You will now cut me down as I did you and then guess what? I DONT CARE BECAUSE I WILL NOW IGNORE YOU UNTIL ETERNITY!!!

Ant,

please forgive me, I will refrain from now on.

Dave

[HYBRID]

Glenn & Manifest,

You guys don't get it, right?
If you want to change graphics card, and I bet you both did long ago, go ahead!!
You got so far to scare away the testers, well most of them, and now you want to rid yourselves off of the only inside voice we have at Matrox, Haig?

Crying, whining and gossiping is all you can do. You ask questions, don't read the answer, just copy & paste it into a next question!

So tell me what you're here for?

I saw in Jorden's General Strike thread that glennbrook1998 said something like "We are on the Matrox forum, so we expect answers from Matrox"... Boy are you wrong !!

This is a forum by Ant, who has had trouble enough getting recognized by Matrox, for all kinds of KNOWN Matrox CARDS & drivers !!

If you have trouble with such a DRIVER or CARD, then you can ask others how to work arround that problem !! And get an answer!!

Now, if you want an answer on the beta-drivers soon to be published, currently being tested by the testers, you cannot!!
Simply because you don't have them.. !!

GOT THAT??

Neither do we have them... we are going to ask our questions when we have PD5.
And so will you. Don't say you won't, for some systems just won't take on these drivers. But all of that is answered above!

So stop what you're doing guys. Just for the best of the forums.

Hybrid.

[Shlooky]

Yo Manifest,
"I leave the cutting down of people to the experts; I'm working on matrox."

If you say your working on Matrox then why do it here..?
This forum is in no way affiliated with Matrox although Haig drops by from time to time he's here to help people out with hardware problems one might be having.
This forum as you might already know is for people to share comments and experiences/problems etc. soooooooo
why don't you send your problems and concerns directly to Matrox and avoid this Forum all together because all your doing is causing greef for everybody and getting nowhere really fast.

Chaosers,
Shlooky

[merchant2]

oh just ignore if no one egg's them on they we might get lucky and they will go away. any way its fun to read them go on and on and on about the same thing and make idots of them selfs while bitching about a process they have no control over .


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i spend way too much time and money on my 3 systems.

[Filmgeek]

SteveC,

If you're using Iomega and Powerquest as prime examples of private beta testing, then God help all Matrox users. Iomega especially has proven themselves as completely incompetent as far as quality control, listening to users, and proper testing. I have a Zip Plus Drive to prove it. (Anyone who has one will know what I'm talking about) I hope Iomega goes down in flames after the click of death and Zip Plus fiascos. If Matrox ever becomes like Iomega then I hope they go down in flames too.
And Haig, how can you bring up PD 4.5 as an example of public beta testing? It's not going to work unless you're putting out beta drivers more often than every 6 months.



[This message has been edited by Filmgeek (edited 06-29-99).]

[Holmes]

Ok, first of all I have no problems with the beta testers. I have been a passive watcher of this forum since December and all of them have offered great advice on a regular basis.
My quarrel is with Matrox. I bought my G200 in December and I was happy for a while; I had brand new drivers, a new beta "ICD" and a promise for continued support. It is now 6 months later. If I hear "soon, real soon" one more time I'm gonna f*ckin puke, cause I've been hearing it for "long, real long". That's not a shot at the beta testers, it's a shot at Matrox. It is pretty sad when new drivers come out only when the unified version is released for the next generation product. That is not smart buisness. And a note on private beta testing, judging by the problems with socket 7 systems with the G200 and also the Rainbow colors with the ICD beta 2 in Quake, it might be a good idea to get a wide variety of system configs. This doesn't nessissarily mean an open beta, just a bigger private one.

[Ant]

For those of you critcising Haigs beta scheme, you do not know it's extent nor the qulifications of the testers involved so how you feel you can make damning comments on it is beyond me. You only see the 3 or 4 beta testers that have come out of the closet here and you think that gives you the full insight into the beta test scheme. I see people criticising the lack of a public beta then criticisng the 4.51 drivers and OpenGL ICD that were a public beta.

It is a fact that a 6 month gap is very wrong in driver releases and Matrox have made many cock ups with the G200 driver development. We now have someone at Matrox that is making great inroads into turning a lot of things around at Matrox, he is open and has got real users involved in internal testing which is what many of us have been screaming about for months. And look what happens, he and the people involved get attacked for it.

I know there is a lot to complain about but I'm finding this attitude toward Haig and the beta testers totally unbelieveable. What do you want? Things to go back to the way they were? The beta test scheme is a tech support scheme not driver development or public relations department one. Haig is tech support manager, not development manager not PR manager, criticising him directly for matters relating to departments other than tech support is totally pointless.

The one really good thing to come out of Matrox lately and what do we see? All this crap, all it does is give those at Matrox that are against it ammunition to go back to the old ways. It seems to me there is a mixture of genuine frustration and childish jealousy at work here. I've already shut down one thread because of this attitude and yet people decide to carry it on. Get a grip people, stop attacking people just because they are beta testers. I know these people they speak out here on the beta testing in a genuine and postive way, they are restricted in what they can say by NDAs. They have been around these forums for a long time speaking both pro and anti Matrox and I think Haig made some very good choices. They are people that know what they are talking about and have shown to be willing to go out of their way to help out people in these forums. If the attitude of certain people towards them means that they withdraw from these forums then I will protect my main interest, these forums and the huge majority of visitors that gain valuable information from them. If it means banning people to protect my forums and stop them from falling into the hands of flame baiters I will do so as I have done in the past. I don't do things like this to keep these forums pro Matrox but to keep them pro user and to keep those peoeple that make genuine contributions to help out fellow users which is what these forums are here for. I also value highly the input of Haig and the other Matrox employees who make contributions here and will protect them. I find it extremely sad that there are a lot of Matrox employees making valued contributions here but they do so anonymously because of the way they get treated when they come out in the open.

These forums are run by users for fellow users to help each other out. They are not offical Matrox forums. They have no official connection whatsoever with Matrox.

[SteveC]

Filmgeek - for once I will agree with you: Iomega's beta test program fr the Zip250 might as well have never have happened. The main probs found during beta testing by us were concerning the Zip100 disks, so did they fix it? Nope, just put a note in the manual saying 'you may experience problems with using Zip100 disks'. Yeah, like thanks!

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Cheers,
Steve
It's Only A Graphics Card!
(But a damn good 'un!)

[merchant2]

Filmgeek i have a zip 100 plus drive and the only problems i have with it are the original drivers that came with it i downloaded and installed the web release drivers and havent had a problem with it.

or are you talking about the zip plus 250??

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I spend way too much time and money on my 3 systems, and I can't spell worth a dam either

noel

[Andrew D]

I smell a thread about to be closed!!!!! Ha ha ha!

[Filmgeek]

merchant2,

I'm talking about the Zip 100 Plus. If you have one you know that they were supposed to work on both parallel port and SCSI connections. It turns out it can only be used on a SCSI port if they are the only device connected. Otherwise your data gets corrupted. Makes the SCSI part of it pretty much useless. Of course, this fact didn't get out until the users who had shelled out $200 bucks encountered the bug. Iomega's solution: they gave all Zip plus users a new revised owners manual. That and they stopped making the drive. When I hear about Zip 250 I just have to laugh. You couldn't pay me to use an Iomega product and they're a local company too. But WordPerfect was started here in Utah, too, and they were defeated by Microsoft (IMO) because of their own arrogance.

Anyway back to the subject, I'm sorry that these type of threads always end in flamewars, but it doesn't change my opinion that Matrox needs to change its ways (and I mean even more). Just my opinion. Ant, I realize I don't know the details on Haig's beta testing method, and I'm not necessarily suggesting it should be abolished either. Nor am I criticizing the beta testers (never have). However, I do think their are some inherent flaws to the method of choosing testers that Haig described, and as a result many configurations are going to go untested and down the road the users will suffer again. And about criticizing the OpenGL ICD, the reason people screamed so loudly was that there was a huge delay in even bringing out the first beta, and there was also the fact that Matrox basically lied. And when it was here, it was, quite frankly, crap. It was alpha quality at best. Where do you begin when there are so many deficiencies in a piece of software?

If it sounds like I'm not "appreciating" Matrox's recent changes, you're right, I'm not. That's because I see none. They may be going on "behind the scenes" but to the end user, things are basically the same. I think Matrox has shown itself (and this is the company I'm talking about, not any individual) to be arrogant, snobbish, deceitful, isolationist and generally unwilling to change. If, as you say, that type of criticism gives the "old guard" an excuse to do things the old way, so be it. It will eventually come to bite them on the ass. I'm sorry if occasionally Haig gets criticism that he doesn't deserve, it's not fair. But hey, that doesn't mean I'm going to start singing Matrox's praises and kissing up. As someone previously wrote, this isn't high school, this isn't about being with the "in crowd" by kissing ass. At least it shouldn't be. When I see threads like "Who's your favorite" I just want to puke. That's it, end of rant.



[This message has been edited by Filmgeek (edited 06-30-99).]

[LAMFDTK]

What a wacked out thread.

1) when will the "Beta-Boyz" tour this summer? I hear they are great live !

2)Manifest tough break on not getting the call to be a beta tester. maybe next time.

3)This forum is filled with great information and answers, there is nothing close to it (that I have found)on the Web.

4)The beta testers have more knowledge and insite with these cards than any company would ever hope to get with an "Open" program. And the are very entertaining...

5)Matrox has pissed me off. and so what!

[Manifest]

Helevitia & HYBRID

I leave the cutting down of people to the experts; I'm working on matrox. You both seem so good at what it is that you do... your posts say more about you than anything I ever could.

[TheMorg]

Sorry Manifest - I sympathise with your predicament, but I can see good reasons for Matrox/Haig's approach to the beta testing.

Open betas are a useful and valid resource for testing software against in the widest possible variety of scenarios, but there are problems (ISO9000, response quality/volumes, flooding of tech support, etc).

The problem Matrox have had for the last year does not seem to be related to the analysis or testing phase - rather their lack of resource dedicated to designing/coding G200 drivers, which is why we seem to be waiting for a port of the new G400 drivers.

Haig has limited the beta testing to a small number, chosen for their apparent knowledge and experience. I would be surprised if he has not tried to cover as many applications as possible with the drivers in such a late beta stage, but at the end of the day it's his ass on the line! (Sorry, an uncharacteristic Americanism there, but I watch far too much TV).

If the new drivers go GA and bomb because beta testing was not varied/stringent enough, he'll take the heat. I think that Matrox/Haig will find that more of a motivation than releasing beta code to the masses and sinking under the volume of support calls, even if you personally prefer it.

Hybrid's right. Relax, it won't come any faster for complaining, and the average quality of forum threads may improve!