Some G400s are only AGP 2X??

[Buuri]

Opus, my reply was to you.

"Who is to say TNT is within spec?"
Hmm.. could you clear that up? I don't know what you are referring to. Maybe you misread something?



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Excel 7.0, Winamp 2.23, Adobe Acrobat 4.0, QuickTime 4

[Joel]

What some of y'all are failing to remember is that Matrox is using DiME mode AGP instead of DMA mode AGP like everyone else. The G200 has no problems with 2X DMA mode AGP on the SS7 platform and the G400 has no problem with 2X DiME mode AGP.

Joel

[SteveC]

The G200 has probably the best implementation of AGP in the market. Matrox went the whole way and used DiME 2X AGP, when other manufacturers didn't. Unfortunately for Matrox, many mobos just couldn't hack it at that setting. It's no one's fault apart from the mobmo manufacturer.

Back to that AGP2X/4X - The G400 will operate in 2X mode for sure in both 2X and in 4X mobos. Not all cards will do this as the voltage spec for the AGP4X slots has changed. Some cards require jumper changes, but the G400 will just work without doing anything. No one knows for sure until Matrox has tested the G400 with an AGP 4X board if it will run using 4X transfers. No one in the world can claim to have an AGP4X capable graphics card becuase there is no way to test it. Hopefully, the G400 will run in AGP4X mode when the boards come out, but we have to wait and see.

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Cheers,
Steve
It's Only A Graphics Card!
(But a damn good 'un!)

[Buuri]

You're right Joel, I *knew* that but..

And I so agree with you Steve. Yet manufactorers don't hesitate much what it comes to the advertising. Remember that "Arm youself with TNT2" banner?
2X/4X flashing all over the place..


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Excel 7.0, Winamp 2.23, Adobe Acrobat 4.0, QuickTime 4

[Gurm]

Buuri, just a quick point:

TNT, TNT2, and ATI all fail miserably on a large percentage of SS7 systems. There is no such thing as a fast AGP2x card that works reliably on most SS7 systems. Sorry.

- Gurm

[Haig]

Buuri,

Maybe the wording could have been better but there's nothing suspicious about it. What we always claimed is that the G400 will work in 2x and 4x systems.

This is a big difference between working in a 4x system and performing 4x agp transactions.

Our competition right now is claiming 4x transactions. I would like to see this with their current boards on a 4x system once those mobo's come out.

Getting back to the SS7 2x boards, you have our reason. Gurm just gave you another. Prove to me that those motherboards aren't noisy.

It's nice to see people giving their opinions about this but don't start making accusations with no back up.

If you think that motherboards are just so perfectly designed then answer me this, on a P5A with ALI AGP driver 1.6 released on June 1, it disables AGP2x but bus mastering greatly improves.

With the previous ALI AGP drivers, AGP 2x is available but Bus Mastering is horrible.

Is this us again or ALI trying to cover up a major bug on their hardware?

Haig

[Markus Selchow]

So am I using AGP2.25x ???

AGP2x on 112MHz FSB results in 2x75MHz AGP bus transfer speed

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Cheers,
Maggi

Asus P2B-S @ 112MHz FSB * Celeron300A @ 504MHz
Heavily boosted by the Millenium G400 32MB SGRAM DualHead

[Buuri]

Maggi,

Haig, what!? 1.6 driver disables 2x! Howcome *that* never cought my eye..
God damned, and I've been sweatting for days of loosing my 2x..

Where does this information come from?
Aren't you just maybe a little bit covering up here, eh?

And what it comes to "making accusations with no back up", nobody in this forums have any reason to believe that I would have any inside information on any matters disgussed here. So far I've brought here my opinions and I intend to do so. If somebody end up with another product because of that, I won't see myself as responsible for that.
I still bugs me to see my friend going with his Asus TNT on P5A and 2x, while it doesn't work for me. I realize that this topic has been on for almost a year, but you give us those MAXes so we can make up new ones!


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[Haig]

No no no, no cover up.

P5A/ALI chipset with ALI 1.5 AGP drivers = 2x
P5A/ALI chipset with ALI 1.6 AGP drivers = 1x

With the 1.6 drivers, softdvd is very smooth.
With the 1.5 drivers, softdvd is very choppy.

I didn't accuse you of any inside information. I was referring to you or anyone else, that if you think that the G200 1x/2x is our problem, then tell us why.

Telling us that some other card works doesn't mean much. It's possible that the other card has some kind of noise filter on it. Even so, this does not mean that the motherboard has no noise problem.

Haig

[Haig]

Hi Chuck,

All G400 flavours - OEM, Bulk, Retail, SH, DH, Max all run 2x transactions. They will also run in 4x mobo but not in 4x transactions, only 2x transactions.

All I'm saying is that it is not possible for us to claim that our cards will run 4x transactions when nothing is even specified yet.

If our competition wants to do so, good luck to their techies

Once Camino comes out, and then all the clones pop out of every corner of the world , then we'll probably do something that will support 4x transactions.

Until then, all G400 cards will work in both motherboards but only in 2x mode.

Burri, last fall I have no clue what went on on this forum. I was mainly on the video forum. I am aware of the AGP and ICD issues with the G200.

If you want proof of the noise on some of these motherboards, just scope it. If you can't, then all you have is my word against the others. I have seen the crap that's generated by some of these mobo's.

But ask yourself this. Why is it that Kruzin has a P2B motherboard full of capacitors and can run in 2x mode where others who ALSO have a P2B motherboard with NO capacitors can't run in 2x? He has posted a pic of his mobo on the gaming forum a few months ago. Anyone can compare their P2B with his.

Why 2 motherboards with the same model # but different circuitry?

Why is it that we cannot read exactly what we wrote to AGP?

I seriously doubt that any of these mobo manufacturers will reply to these questions.

Why???

If you want a card right now that will actually do 4x transactions once these mobo's come out, then the G400 isn't for you. I'm not trying to sound agressive but that's how it is

Haig

[djroberts]

I hadn't realised this topic was so popular so I posted a new one that said the following:

Powerdesk claims mine is a 2X not a 2X-4X. I called the distributor and they stated they think it's 4X. I called Matrox and they claim they have never stated the current G400 to be 4X and that it is only 4X compatible but will run in 2X. They are currently discussing this with their engineers but currently state that I would never see a difference anyway. Sounds a little fishy. They claim the G400 4X card won't be out until after the official release of AGP 4X on Motherboards. I don't know what this is about, but I'll hear from Matrox some time tommorrow...
- DJ

[djroberts]

I didn't realize Joel would get so flamed about this thread. Although I feel I should get nasty, perhaps open a can of something, I remember my earlier promise to try to stay out of such fudel arguments. Anyway, sorry for the duplicate thread I posted today. Feel free to destroy it if you wish...

- DJ

[Buuri]

Of the drivers, I'm surpriced to hear that. But the certainty it also moves the burden from my chest.

No, no it doesn't. Yes it may have a filter. No it doesn't indeed.

Now, "if you think that the G200 1x/2x is our problem, then tell us why", like I tried to put into words above think the problem was that the card was out before the mobos. And that is just what's happened with G400 too.
In my opinion that leaves an uncertainty and a plenty of room for speculation. But it doesn't prove anything - I'm not trying to say that.
I'm looking forward for G400 myself, but I ain't gonna buy one if i see any threads here like we saw last fall..


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[Buuri]

DJ,

Read aove what Haig said about this: "All G400 flavours - OEM, Bulk, Retail, SH, DH, Max all run 2x transactions. They will also run in 4x mobo but not in 4x transactions, only 2x transactions."

So it's compatible with 4x, but only supports the features of 2x.
I haven't heard this before, but it's a trustworthy source..

That should pretty much give an answer to your question.


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[cjolley]

This discussion started out OK and went down hill fast.
djrobers question was basically ->
"Is my G400 running at 2X because it is an OEM card?"

The answer is "No, that is normal. Your motherboard only supports 2X. The Boxed and OEM G400s both have the same AGP capabilities." (If that is true - Haig?)

The operational 4X questions can't be answered until some 4X MBs come out to test. The answer will probably be that it will run 4X on good MBs and fall back to 2X on bad ones. That's all that can be said at this point.
Chuck