Announcement

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 13:12

Yes, I was referring to that article, too. But it seems they have backtracked a bit on that claim if you look here: http://www.matrox.com/mga/g400/products/home.htm on the features page, you'll see it says "Opimized AGP device(2)" and at the end of the page it says "(2)Millenium G400 is compatible with 4X and 2X motherboards and will achieve peak AGP transfer rates of 532 MB/sec."
I noticed this last month, and found it quite odd that before, on that same page it was claiming AGP4X transfers....
And Swampy is referring to the jumpers on the current TNT2 cards that needs to be set to run in the 4X motherboard, Haig was mentioning this in another thread. When I find it, I will post a link to it.
Matt

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Is this some kind of bust?
Yes, it's very impressive.

**Silicon Prophet** · 24 July 1999, 13:32

Matt, thanks for the info. I hadn't seen that little footnote they put down there before. If the 532 MB/sec is correct, then it is only an AGP 2X device. That piece of information does not belong in a footnote in my opinion. It seems we are to be the victims of clever marketing again. I'm still not cancelling the order for my MAX though . If you can find that thread dealing with the jumper issue, I would appreciate it.

Cheers!

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The Silicon Prophet
(aka Manex)

ABIT BH-6, Celeron 300A @ 450 MHz, 128MB RAM, Millenium G200 16MB, IBM Deskstar 10GXP, SB LIVE!, Adaptec AHA-2940UW, Plextor 32X CDROM, Plextor 4X/12X CD-R, 3COM Etherlink XL PCI, IOMEGA ZIP 100 SCSI, Motorola Cybersurfr Wave cable modem

[This message has been edited by Silicon Prophet (edited 07-24-99).]

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 13:39

Heres the link: http://forums.gagames.com/forums/For...ML/002023.html

BTW, IMO I don't think 4X is anything thats going to make that much of a difference, anyhow. And I will still get a G400.

Maybe if Haig see's these posts here, he will give some insight on the subject.
Matt

------------------
Is this some kind of bust?
Yes, it's very impressive.

**Kruzin** · 24 July 1999, 13:40

Silicone Prophet-
Maybe you should do a little research before talking sheet

Just how do you expect 1x/2x AGP cards of today are going to work in a 4x mobo? Have you seen the slot??

Unless you take a hacksaw to it, it aint gonna fit

It's a different slot for 4x. Different voltage too. It just ain't gonna happen. Some 4x cards will work in 1x/2x mobos (like the G400, which has notches for both slots types), but not the other way around (when they come out)

[This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 07-24-99).]

**Silicon Prophet** · 24 July 1999, 14:00

Hey Kruzin... I wasn't intending to talk smack to anyone , so perhaps I'm wrong, but I could've sworn that I read an article which stated that AGP 1X/2X cards would fit in the AGP 4X slot. If this is not true, then I respectfully withdraw my earlier statement ( which means I'm busy trying to take my foot out of my mouth, DOH!) Do you have a link to any info about the slot design? In the article that I originally read, which was some time ago I must admit, I remember that the slot was different, but I thought it was just extended/modified... Oh well, sorry about that.

BTW Kruzin, how did you manage to keep your username when the server bit the dust a couple weeks ago? Just curious because I had to re-register...

Cheers!

------------------
The Silicon Prophet
(aka Manex)

ABIT BH-6, Celeron 300A @ 450 MHz, 128MB RAM, Millenium G200 16MB, IBM Deskstar 10GXP, SB LIVE!, Adaptec AHA-2940UW, Plextor 32X CDROM, Plextor 4X/12X CD-R, 3COM Etherlink XL PCI, IOMEGA ZIP 100 SCSI, Motorola Cybersurfr Wave cable modem

[This message has been edited by Silicon Prophet (edited 07-24-99).]

[This message has been edited by Silicon Prophet (edited 07-24-99).]

**Kruzin** · 24 July 1999, 14:18

All you have to do is look at a picture of the G400. Where older gen AGP cards have one notch, the G400 and other card that claim 4x compatability (I didn't say 4x x-fers ) have 2 notches. One in the same location as current, and one opposite of it.
http://www.murc.ws/reviews/G400MAX/MAX.jpg

If you want to go digging, the specs are all at
http://developer.intel.com/solutions/tech/agp.htm
Even if you did cram an AGP1.0 card into an AGP2.0 slot, the added voltage would smoke the card

And I duuno how I kept my profile...guess the forum gods must like me

[This message has been edited by Kruzin (edited 07-24-99).]

**Haig** · 24 July 1999, 14:44

Hi guys,

I've said this in other threads before. The G400 will work in both 2x and 4x motherboards.

When you put the G400 in a 4x motherboard, we will do 2x transfers.

Most of our competitors are also claiming the same BUT when you put the G400 in a 4x motherbaord, we are automatically switching to the proper AGP voltage. All of our competitors with the exception of 1 card, have on board jumpers for the clients to manually configure the AGP voltage between 2x and 4x motherboards.

If a card impliments AGP 2x transfers properly, it will out perform any poorly designed 4x (talking transfers) any day.

Kruzin is right about the notches. If a current card does not have the 2nd notch, it won't fit in a 4x motherboard. If a card only has the 2nd notch, it will only fit in a 4x motherboard. It won't backwards compatable.

Haig

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 14:54

Hi Haig,

I am glad you replied, maybe you can answer my question, then. Why is it that Matrox was claiming 4X transfers for the 4X motherboards, look here for the claim: http://www.matrox.com/g400/technical.../pdf/agp4x.pdf
And now they are not, has there been a change, or is this document incorrect? I know it is not that big of a deal, but I would like to know, TIA.
Matt

------------------
Is this some kind of bust?
Yes, it's very impressive.

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 15:08

Also, in the AGP 2.0 spec., they do allow a "universal AGP connector" which will allow a physical connection between all 3 types of AGP cards, but will require the MB manufacture to add a detection scheme that will automatically switch between 1.5v(4X capable cards), and 3.3v(1X,2X capable cards). But that will be up to the motherboard manufacture.

------------------
Is this some kind of bust?
Yes, it's very impressive.

[This message has been edited by M Ragsdale (edited 07-24-99).]

**Haig** · 24 July 1999, 16:50

Hi Matt,

That doc didn't last too long on our site. Once we realized that this was wrong, we took it off right away.

"but will require the MB manufacture to add a detection scheme that will automatically switch between 1.5v(4X capable cards), and 3.3v(1X,2X capable cards)."

Correct. This detection scheme is only for 2x/4x compatablity, not transfers. This is going to be a big mess for the cards that have a jumper select between 2x and 4x.

Even if the MB detects that there is a 4x compatable card, the card itself better be set to that voltage.

For the graphic cards that do an auto detect, it makes no difference whether the MB detects the 4x card or not.

Haig

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 16:55

Thank you, Haig!, you da man!
Matt

**tylau** · 24 July 1999, 17:15

Haig,
I dont know if this si my ISP proxy glitches, the doc you mentioned about AGP4X support is still there, right within matrox website in its usual location.

???

**M Ragsdale** · 24 July 1999, 17:18

I just went there and it is still there here, too.

------------------
Is this some kind of bust?
Yes, it's very impressive.

**chuck** · 24 July 1999, 23:19

Haig,
I just looked (I have no proxy or caching) and it is still there as of 7:00 am cst 07/25/1999.
BTW looking at your last post I wondered if you have started working 24 hours a day?
chuck

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(erstwhile cjolley) celery 333@500mz 2.2V, 64meg@cas2, 10gig IBM 7200rpm UltraStar, Princton EO75, $15 sound card(!),V3 2000 PCI (still waiting on my MAX!)

**LAMFDTK** · 25 July 1999, 10:21

The Clinton Administration taught the world!

Announcement

NV10 by Sept!!!

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