G400: Odd OpenGL Problems Continue

[Ashley]

Kruzin - Its clear I can't convince you that the PS did not and cannot modify your BIOS, so I give up...

As for my "question": of course, there *are* limits and constraints that have to be respected when programming a PLL. My question was rhetorical only...

And even though you don't have the MAX, quite a few people do - it does have 5ns memory and no one has reached 225MHz...

SwAmPIAdY - The PS doesn't assume anything about the type of memory you have onboard, so that is completely unrelated. DualHead has to be taken into account when programming the pixel clock, but it shouldn't matter vis-vis the system clock.

You don't supply enough info to comment on the other things you mention - email me if you like after ensuring you are using the latest version...

[SwAmPlAdY]

Swwwwwwwwwwish, what just went over my head

SwAmPy

[Kruzin]

Sorry, Ashley- But the more I investigate, the more I am convinced PS can screw up the G400 BIOS. So, no...you can't convince me...but I don't give up so easily

Yesterday, I started asking Haig (Matrox tech guru dude) if it was possible for PS to mess with the bios if it is just setting the PLL on the chip. Initially, he said it shouldn't harm the card at all.

Then he tried it himself. This morning I got this in the mail:
"I downloaded PS from his site yesterday. After playing with it a while, it screwed my bios eventhough he isn't changing anything in it."

He verified that PS is not changing the pins, but it is doing something to the bios at random times...like me, paulcs, and swampy, he had to restore his bios to get things back to normal.

How many different people will have to tell you this happened before you beleive us?

[GinoCyber]

Hey guys,

same problem here. Powerstrip trashed something in my system. The only way was to reflash my bios.

Ciao

[Gurm]

Ashley,

Perhaps it would help if I reiterate in a single sentence what everyone else seems to be saying in their roundabout ways:

1. We believe you that you aren't intentionally messing with the BIOS.

2. There is a bug in your program which causes the BIOS to go belly-up.

That was two sentences, wasn't it? Oh, well.

- Gurm

[Ashley]

SwAmPIAdY - Something in the Windows registry? Is that what your asking? Nope. The PowerStrip stores all its info in a private ini file, not in the registry. And I am still waiting for Hellmut, and now you, to provide an example where the video BIOS is modified while running under Windows. Saying its possible twice or a million times doesn't make it so...

As for the rest of you: here I am providing fairly detailed explanations of what is done, when its done, and why its done, and what do I get back in return?

The PowerStrip is "messing with the BIOS", "the BIOS goes belly up", "PowerStrip trashed something", and my personal favorite, from a "Matrox tech guru dude" no less: "it screwed my bios even though he isn't changing anything in it"

Could you guys possibly be more vague?

Here's a program that supports over 50 chips from 13 chiphouses under 3 very different operating systems, and yet here it is destroying G400s left and right.

Over and above anything else, this has to be a pretty "fragile" card don't you think? Think about what you're saying. We have here a read-only (ROM) BIOS that isn't read-only? PINS that aren't protected in any way? Hardware registers that aren't reset or initialized by a POST? A value in the Windows registry that can destroy a board? Is this card ready for the retail market? And keep in mind that there are people in this forum with serious G400 problems who have never even heard of the PowerStrip.

To top everything off, all of this destruction - accidental or otherwise - is completely random and non-repeatable. We have in this forum and even in this thread people using the PS without any of the problems you guys have. How stupid can they be? Here they've gone and completely destroyed their card, and they don't even know it!

[M Ragsdale]

Oh god, where do I start?

Ashley, You seem to be missing something, it is not vague, it is not murky, IT IS VIVID. People have been using PS to overclock their cards, and it is doing something that only flashing the BIOS and uninstalling PS cures. Hmmmm....PRETTY CLEAR, if you ask me. That "Matrox Guru Dude" that you seem to scoff at is head of Tech. support at Matrox, and I would take his word over yours any day of the week, even the eigth day. I am not flaming you I am just trying to be sure that you are no longer blurred. As far as the G400 being a fragile card, I don't buy it. Many other O/C utilities can be used and NONE have the effect that the wonderprogram PS has had.
FACT: People using PS to O/C their cards are having to reflash Their BIOS to cure the PS hangover.
FACT: Other O/C utilities can be used without damaging the BIOS.
FACT: The G400 comes 6ns RAM, You thought 5ns, The MAX comes with 5ns RAM.

Matt


[This message has been edited by M Ragsdale (edited 07-28-99).]

[Kruzin]

I can give you one big example of how a BIOS can be programmed under windows. Download the latest Unified BIOS from the Matrox web site. It contains flash utilities for both DOS and Windows!

The open PINs of Matrox have always been a big plus to me. It's truely the best way to overclock the card. It's the way most of the regulars here o/c their G200. It's much cleaner than any o/c util, more stable, will reach higher limits, and it's permanent As soon as someone releases a util to dump the PINs for the G400, we'll all be doing it to them too. Apparently some of us already are, eh Swampy

Come on Greg....when's mxinfo going to write something to that PINs file?

[Haig]

Well here's what this matrox dude has to say.

1 - Eventhough you don't change anything in our bios, the only way for me to get my system back up and running properly was to reflash it.

Each time I used your utility to overclock, I ran our HAL tools to see if you are actually changing our clocks. According to our HAL tools, you are not.

This would mean to me that IF you are accessing our registers (on the chip), you are accessing the wrong ones.

2 - YES you can flash a bios thru windows.

Haig

[This message has been edited by Haig (edited 07-28-99).]

[agallag]

I thought it was pretty obvious that Swamplady meant "register" not "registry". Jeez, a simple typo and you jump all over her...

------------------
Andrew Gallagher - andrew@agallagher.com
Asus P2B-S, PII-350, 64MB PC100, 12.7GB Quantum Fireball EX ATA-33, 3.2GB IBM Deskstar3 EIDE, 2x2.1GB Quantum Atlas I UWSCSI, Toshiba 6201 SCSI CD, WangDAT SCSI, MillG200 8MB (Anxiously awaiting my G400MAX), SBLive! Retail, Win98SE

[SwAmPlAdY]

Ashley, when you tilt your head, do you hear a rainstick?

As Andrew said, I'm talking about the chips registers, not windows registry. Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesh!

We are just trying to give you feedback. If you think your utility is that perfect, then don't fix it.

That's right Kruzin, pins is the only way to go

SwAmPy

[SwAmPlAdY]

Howdy boys,

Here's some more things to consider. This is just speculation on my part.

Ashley, if you reverse engineered the bindings, it could be possible that you are playing with a registry that is reserved for the bios. Therefore, eventhough you aren't modifying the bios itself, your utility can be messing it up just the same.

One other note. I must agree with Hellmut. There is a way to update a bios thru windows.

SwAmPy

[Agent31]

I've had my V3 for two months now, no problems whatsoever don't worry guys, you'll sort it out eventually

[Scytale]

I'm a man so I prefer cold metal jumpers for overclocking. I never use software anyway, but for benchmarking my hardware.

[Whisper]

This is a great thread, a bit of conflict, but also technical stuff from people who know wtf they are talking about. I do agree with Ashley in one respect though, the Matrox corner has to be more specific as to what they do, what changes occur in the registry they see, and if possible, the state of BIOS and pins once the G400 card has, putting it technically, crapped out.

Also, where is GBM, I am sure his input would be most welcome, to help solve what is an obvious problem. One way or the other.

One thing I ask is, you don't have to be nice, but please be technically correct.