The tree demo Nvidia used to show off GeForce is available for dowload.

[Cloudy]

Just like owners of a G200 bought a G400 and owners of a TNT bought a TNT2, the same will happen again and again.
Anyway, a TNT2, G400 (with good ICD) can handle quite a lot of things so it won't run top fps but it'll still be playable.

------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.

[SteveC]

True I guess, but not in the majority of cases. Joe public thinks of computers like VCRs. They bought it 'only' 2 years ago, and don't believe that it needs upgrading already. We see this time and time again in the computer shop I work in. But most people who bought the G200 or the TNT or a Voodoo2 for it's speed/features did buy a G400 or a TNT2 or a voodoo3. You're right. I just worry that this is not the majority of the buyers. Nvidia better hope that they get some big OEM deals set in concrete.
BTW, you have a rage 128, how does that tree demo run on that?

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[Cloudy]

Beats me, I'm at work so I couldn't download it yet.
Anyway I hate my fury. All those people doing 2D benchmarks test the wrong stuff. I have unstable mouse when hovering above Winamp and I don't have the Zoom feature ATi had b4 and Matrox still have.
This card fails even in the D3D demo supplied by ATi - Hehehe.
The worst thing is that it isn't even supported in BeOS.
At least it plays DVD.

I wouldn't worry about Nvidia since they stole a 70M$ deal with Dell from ATi - way to go Nvidia !

------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.

[SteveC]

Here ya go Cloudy, go here:
http://ects.gamespot.co.uk/pc/news/0...329317,00.html

i didn't realise it is out in the UK (like we get everything last here!) in 3 weeks...

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[Rags]

I may be a bit off-base here, but here is my take on this GeSpot thing. I think it is great anytime we can get more power from a video card, but I think that by puting the T&L on a video card and taking it from the CPU, kind of limits your video card. Think about it, how many new CPU's do you see every month, at least 1 or 2. They are always getting faster and faster yet. If you go out and buy a GeSpot, your gaming speed is going to be limited, I am guessing, soley by your video card, no matter how big of a processor you put in your machine, it just won't go any faster, the game is going to be fill-rate limited. I personally go through processors much quicker (currently) than I do video cards. So, I think that when the games become more CPU intensive to take advantage of the so-called T&A on the NV10, then your only bet to get better frame rates is going to be to go out and buy a new GeSpot2 or GeSpotUltra. My point is that if you think that the useful life of your video card is short now, wait until these cards start coming out, the cycle is bound to be shorter.

Rags



------------------
That's your wife on the back of my horse!!

[Storm]

I just downloded the tree thing, it runs just fine on my g400 dh 32mb 160/200 until you go into really high polygon count... i guess that's where the ever-so-wonderful-and-fast nvidia comes in...
Personally i prefer image quality over speed.
And anyhow, i'm waiting for the next next card like Glaze 3D to come out. (or the next matrox part.....maybe...)

Also...um.. you can make some really sick looking trees with that app....

[Cloudy]

Thanx Steve !!!

Rags, the issue has already been addressed somewhere (I read so many new I 4get where). Anyway, the main idea is that the T&L on board boasts so much power compared to the scaling capabilities that you'll need 200% more cpu power (compared with your current) to scale up to the level of the onboard T&L.
Since you don't change cpu's so fast and since they don't advance so quickly, T&L on board is curretly the best solution graphics wise.
User wise, it will release the FPU for other tasks such as AI and more. This could be translated into faster gameplay and better AI. The less your CPU has to handle, the faster all around performance you have.
Another thing you should take into account is that a new graphic adapter will be around - let's say 300$ and it'll free up a lot of CPU so an old P-II 266 will be instantly revived and could run newer games. Now a new CPU such as a P-III 500 will cost you more and give you less performance boost.
The main reason Intel based PCs are better than Macs is because our perifery is way stronger.


------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.

[SteveC]

There's nothing I can do to make you go the Matrox way, is there?
Obviously I'm not cut out for marketing (thank god!)

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[Cloudy]

Sure you can, just tell me what's coming up next, and when is next exactly.
I'm mad at matrox, but I still know a good product when I see one. G400 is a good product, but with a very short life cycle.

------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.

[Rags]

Cloudy,

Yes, I have heard that the CPU performance of the NV10 is huge, but I am concerned about it's relatively small fill rate. It is kind of like having 350 horsepower engine inside of a Model T. The horsepower out-weighs its capacity. The card is seriously fill rate limited. If you look at some of the preview benchmarks put up by NVIDIA themselves, Q2 is limiting its fillrate. If a current game is already limiting it, then surely the ones around the corner are going to bottle it up as well.

Rags



------------------
That's your wife on the back of my horse!!

[Cloudy]

This is why the Savage2000 should be better. 700 vs. 480.
Still, I dream of a quad Glaze3d 2400 board... Pitty this chip is still on the drawing board rather than a reality.
Did you know it can be reporgrammed with newer APIs so you can upgrade it using software ?


------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.

[SteveC]

Yeah, as if Matrox will tell me (or anyone for that matter) what they have up their sleeves.
Sorry, but I don't care how good s3's new card is looking, I have never seen anything good come from them, and I cannot believe anything ever will. When anyone says S3, I immediately think of the trio64 or the Virge.

------------------
Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[Rags]

I just cringe at the thought of a savage, why???? Because of past experiences with their quality control (or lack thereof). Glaze, looks great on paper, ask me when it's out. Hopefully the savage will come around and be a winner in the marketplace, and only play second fiddle to the next gen Matrox product.

Rags



------------------
That's your wife on the back of my horse!!

[wizz]

Guy's Guy's,
The fact is that developers are always 6 to 8 months behind hardware, this means that even games that are being released now can run on previous state of the art boards (Voodoo1, TNT, Banshee, rage pro(yuck), voodoo2) so even if you get the so called Geforce, you have to wait for games to be written to take advantage of its incredible geometry engine, i mean Rags, lets not bullshit here, it may be fillrate limited at 480, but the geometry engine is awesome, it beats anything which has been anounced yet including the savage 2000. You will find that future cards will become less CPU intensive doing things like T&L in hardware thereby you wont have to go and buy the latest CPU just to get a fps boost. This is the problem with the G400, to CPU intensive, i have a PIII500 but i haven't bought one yet (waiting for the RT2000) but i still say if developers brought out games which are not so far behind the hardware, then card manufacturers would have to respond, instead of giving higher clock rates we would have new technology like the geometry engine of the Geforce. So yeah if my driving game come out with photorealistic visual effects that no one can play because current tyechnology is too far behind, i bet you the card manufacterers would respond quickly.

Tony

[Cloudy]

Steve, I must agree with you, but on the other hand, since GeForce256 is supposed to be as strong as two TNT2, i think it's more than adequate for the next few months.

Rags,

That's your wife under my horse!!



------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 128Mb Ram, Xitel Storm Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi, Pioneer DVD rom scsi, ati rage fury.