Opengl is not dead

[Jimmy]

I can't believe we're arguing about quality between OGL and D3D.I agree that D3D has better coverage{but then again everything Billy releases has a magic way of cathing on for no aparent reason},but OGL was created by Silicon Graphics{U know cray supercomputers and shit}after a lot of 'reseach ,and is used by high level 3D moddeling software.But wait D3D was created by a 'company' with years of experiance in word processors and spreadsheets so it must be something good right?Anyway Quake II used OpenGL and ran exceptionally well on my humble PowerVR series 1 although it had fantastic graphics which it wouldn't have if it was D3D.
Oh, and OpenGL supported true bump mapping loooong before D3D dreamed of it beacause bump mapping was used in 3D Modelling Software long ago.Don't confuse real quality product's with Bill Gates unstable code jungle,ok?C YA

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-=Jimmy=-

[tish beta2]

bye! ¦ )

[Marmita]

1st There is no direct connection between Cray and SGI !

2nd No other OS and I tried Linux comes close to the gaming performance of the windows OS... OpenGL is a nice API and I believe it will stay alive. But as long as Direct3D is in the windows OS there is no place for OpenGL in this platform.

3rd Saying that OpenGL "Looks better" then Direct3D is q joke! the 2 APIs have the SAME visual capabilities, the only difference is that the D3D implementation is far more optimized because the OpenGL implementation is done by each individual vendor in its ICD while with D3D microsoft does the optimizations for everyone and the drivers that the vendors do are marly a translator to the 3D hardware.

4th D3D has BETTER performance and better support in the Windows OS. The OpenGL titles are %90 based on quake engines UNREAL IS NOT OPENGL IT WAS WRITTEN FOR GLIDE !!! install the first ver of unreal and U'll see.

5th If IDSoftware would stop supporting OpenGL it WILL die on the windowsOS.

6th Why should vendors bother writting extentions for OpenGL while in D3D MS is doing there job and writting the implementation for each new feature the pops out.

7th The GLX project is a great thing BUT it will never be at the same performance and up to date (as for ne features like EMBM) with D3D, Don't try to compare the effords that the DirectX devision does to the GLX group.

8th Farenheit is a totally new API. It will have features from both APIs but it wont support both.

[franksch3]

Hey Jimmy,

don't argue about things you don't know anything about. Microsoft releases enough good stuff I use every day as a professional developer. Their API's have a great design. Only with Direct3D they have designed a little bit too much, making it harder to use. But don't make any assumptions, as a end user with NO experience at all using Microsoft API's, that all their stuff is shit.

SGI may have experience in 3D much longer than Microsoft, but that doesn't mean that they are better. At the rate Direct3D improves every release in functionality and features, I foresee a point where Microsoft will get ahead of OpenGL.

Frank Schoondermark

[red2]

The GLX driver is already running as fast as the windows driver and the windows team had a TWO year headstart! The GLX driver is currently lacking some buffer swapping and multitexturing, once those are enabled, expect the performance to increase dramatically. Also they don't have the full microcode for the WARP clock either so they are doing EXTREMELY well. They are also planning on writing an extension for EMBM and I expect them to submit it before Matrox does. And once full gaming support is enabled for other OS's, bye bye Microsoft!



[This message has been edited by red2 (edited 09-16-1999).]

[Marmita]

1st As u already know the "Windows team" had no head start it's not MS doing the OpenGL for windows they only give u the OpenGL32.dll which has no affect on performance. The so called "Win Team" is acually Matrox, They and every other vendor are building there own ICD so they didn't have ANY head start.
Secondly I didn't compare the OpenGL windows speed which (And I have both) is still (with the new Beta) %40 even when using 800x600x16 res where there is no Fillrate limit and MultiTexturing is not helping.

What I ment is that Direct3D will always be more up to date and more optimized then GLX and will support all the hardware there is.

U can dream on but never will Linux become the next gaming platform.

Listen I really love Linux and I'm dual booting it with Win98.. But it simply cannot compare with the WinOS... I really think the WinOS is the best PC game platform ever made and it will stay like that... I agree the OpenGL is cross platform but no sofware company except IDSoftware really give a damn thought about other market shares that are relatively small, Mybe the MacOS is an option but as u can see... the number of D3D games is growing MUCH MUCH MUCH faster then the OpenGL games who are all acually Quake 1/2/3 clones based on the same engine.

I don't even think linux will beat MS in the server arena, It really doesn't matter how superior it is as apposed to NT/2000.

[Marmita]

and another thing, Its BULLSHIT saying "it's harder to program for D3D", programmers in the level of John C won't find it any harder to program to D3D its acually just a different syntax for them nothing more! It's a little more complicated but nothing compared to the algorithems u have to deal with when writing a 3D 1st person shooter.

[JamesA]

{Asbestos Suit^tm: ON}

Marmita:

1st There is no direct connection between Cray and SGI !

Why not? SGI <u>bought</u> Cray Research. The SGI Origin 2000^tm is the product of the buyoff. The architecture of this parallel processing beast has many features from the Cray T3x lines.

{I have the privilege to do some parallel programming with an Origin and a T3E using OpenMP, MPI, and HPF APIs, when I was pursuing my Masters degree. }

But as far as OpenGL^tm is concerned, you are right, it has nothing to do with Cray.

3rd Saying that OpenGL "Looks better" then Direct3D is q joke! the 2 APIs have the SAME visual capabilities, the only difference is that the D3D implementation is far more optimized because the OpenGL implementation is done by each individual vendor in its ICD while with D3D microsoft does the optimizations for everyone and the drivers that the vendors do are marly a translator to the 3D hardware.

I dunno, using Half-Life^tm as an example, I can see that there is a significant difference between OpenGL^tm and Direct3D^tm. The former does definitely look better than the latter. This is on the my G400MAX.

Just my two cents. I used to like D3D^tm until I saw Half-Life on OpenGL^tm. Oy. I was blind till then.

{Asbestos Suit^tm: OFF}

Take care!



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JamesA who BOLDs a LOT
System Details

&quot;light blue shirt guy? No!! YK looks better than him.&quot; - Dorene

[red2]

I know the Windows team is Matrox. Why would I think MS would write drivers for someone else! Since Matrox have been working on an ICD for two years, they have a two year headstart. The GLX project got into full gear around April of this year and their driver can already match the windows one without some major performance features being supported yet. Another major company that is starting to use Opengl is Interplay. I didn't see Direct3D support for their upcoming games. Also NVDIA is really pushing opengl and they are a major player in the hardware industry. Maybe not this year, but other OS's will have Windows speed and support with games very soon. Also, Opengl supports all the latest features too and more; instead of rewriting the entire API ala Direct3d, opengl requires just an extension to take advantage of new features.

[Rags]

I dunno, using Half-Lifetm as an example, I can see that there is a significant difference between OpenGLtm and Direct3Dtm. The former does definitely look better than the latter. This is on the my G400MAX.

The reason that D3D looks worse in this case is the simple fact that Half life™ was based on OpenGL™, the D3D that one uses in HL is simply a wrapper that makes OpenGL™ calls to D3D. Everyone knows that you cannot convert all calls in a wrapper and expect decent performance.

Rags



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FedEx Sucks!

[Wombat]

Marmita,
Where the hell do you get your information?
1st: OpenGL and DirectX do not have the same capabilities. OpenGL supports much more than DirectX does, via extensions. D3D has to be rewritten.

2nd: What servers are you looking at?? Linux already is the faster server.

3rd: GLX is faster in some resolutions already than the Windows drivers. And they're not even closed to finished writing code.

Anything else you would like to say before you think about it?

-Wombat

[JamesA]

Rags,

Could you give me an example game in Direct3D^tm that looks on par with the stuff in Half-Life^tm?

I think I was quite impressed by Shogo:MAD^tm. Does that qualify?

I am just curious.



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JamesA who BOLDs a LOT
System Details

&quot;light blue shirt guy? No!! YK looks better than him.&quot; - Dorene

[Rags]

Do you have MW3??? How about Expendable, or Midtown Madness. All three have features that are currently at or above the best OpenGL implementations out there.

I am not arguing for or against OpenGL, I just wanted to set the record straight on why HL looks worse in OpenGL, I know that everything that is done in the game can be supported by D3D (DX6.1). Both API's have their place.

Rags



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FedEx Sucks!

[Kruzin]

I can give an example.
Drakan.
This game looks better in D3D than any OGL game I've seen. Better than any game period. the realtime lighting, stencil buffered shadows, and EMBM in that game are stunning.

On the other hand, if you look at a game coded right from the start, like Homeworld, both APIs look awesome. There is almost no visual difference switching from D3D to OGL in that game...

[JamesA]

Kruzin &amp; Rags,

Thanks for the examples.

I don't have MW3, or MidtownMadness.

I guess I did not like Expendables^tm that much to see enough of it.

My next game purchase would probably be Ultima IX^tm. Maybe HomeWorld^tm too if I ever find time to finish HL, StarCraft+BroodWar, and FFVIII. Oy. Too many games, sooo little time.

Anyway, thanks for the response.




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JamesA who BOLDs a LOT
System Details

&quot;light blue shirt guy? No!! YK looks better than him.&quot; - Dorene