PIII 500 or G400 32Mb advice please

[deejay]

Thanks KvH,
Didn't know the latest celerons are only 66 bus speed.I don't understand 'Coppermines' could you explain please. (probably me being dense on this fine Monday morning).
Iam pretty sure I'm stuck with 100mhz bus speed on my Motherboard (Gigabyte GA-6BXC)
so I suspect 133mhz will not be an option, unless of course you good people know a way around it .
Thanks again KvH.

Dave.

[SteveC]

Um, KvHL

and the P3 will also gain the advantage of larger cache (256mb) at full speed on die.

256mb full speed, on die cache? Cool! This chip is gonna cost more than the NASA mars probe program (which was shot down by LGMs (Little Green Men), by the way).

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Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[Maggi]

There will be some 100MHz Celerons, too ...

P3 core
256KB fullspeed-on-die-L2-cache
66.6 and 100MHz FSB

I'd head for 66.6MHz Celeries, because I really beleive they will hit the 100MHz too


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Cheerio,
Maggi
________________________
Asus P2B-DS @ 103MHz FSB
2x P3-450 @ 464MHz
512MB CAS2 SDRAM
Millenium G400 32MB DH

[merchant2112]

im useing an abit bh6. i did not have to tape anything the board allowed me to do the tweeking thrugh the bios. i am useing an aavid 19.00 heat sink with a 5000+rpm fan (gloabal win)be fore even trying to overclock the cpu i compared the model numbers with the cpu data base on overclockers.com first time out at 2.1 core volt i hit 450 with no problems i tryed 464 and it would boot and post to win98 but it would vxd error out in 15 min. after a reading up some more i tryed 2.2 core volt and 464 bam no lockups or errors looped 3dmark 99max for 6hours and final reality for 9 hours and lastly prime 95 torcher test for 24 hours all with no errors.
i did try to go higher but the cpu or cooling wont let me. (have been running at 464 now for 4 months. no problems and my system stays active 24hours 7 days aweek. no shutdown time its a web and printer proxy foor the rest of my network.) check your numbers (located on the top of your cpu see if you have a cpu that will oc well. then if you feel up to it try tapeing your cpu pins. or if you were planing as part of your upgrade get one one of the mainboards that offer soft cpu set up
abit comes to mind becuse on those boards you
don't have to tape anything. if worst comes to worst you just pick up the p3 or celeron cpu to match (if you can't get your 350 to rev up to the speed your looking for)
and then you have a cpu and main board to sell to someone else.

hey if you think tapeing is a pain you should see what you got to do to the k7 cpus from amd soldering irons and maginfine glass anyone?

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rags, UPS ground sucks too. (i know i used to work for the slave driveing bastards)

[Buuri]

In normal gaming use, the celeron's faster cache makes it a faster chip than its Pentium II or III counterpart. But in Server situations, it's a big no-no.

Eh.. that is often said but would someone please explain why it's such a "no-no"? Are you saying that the whole server software will fit that 512KB of memory? How much larger is the core of Q3A's engine?

_
B

[deejay]

Thanks Merchant,
I do have some latitude for overclocking on my MB(gigabyte GA-6BXC) manual jumpers unfortunately. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my 350 is not one of the ones where the clock multiplier is fixed.
I'll be checking tonight.
Thanks again for all the info, its very much appreciated.
I'm off to overclocking.com
Cheers
Dave

[SteveC]

Buuri - I don't know why, but we got a load of celery PCs here at work which have become NT4 development test servers, and they are soooo slow. One has win2k on it and it unbearabley bad. Weird one that.

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Cheers,
Steve

PS: Some or all of the above message may be wrong, or, just as likely, correct. Depends on what mood I'm in. And what you know. ;¬)

[IceStorm]

Current caching architectures don't work like that...

The simple version (because I don't have my book with me that details the whole thing):

Think of cache as an index to main memory. Pieces of the cache correspond DIRECTLY to REGIONS of main memory. Cache doesn't hold whole programs - it holds blocks of main memory. If a particular chunk of memory is accessed offen, no matter where in the chunk, the whole chunk will be brought into cache. You could be executing two lines of code over and over and over, the whole chunk of RAM that holds those two lines will be brought into cache - you can't bring in just the two lines.

The advantage to a large cache is that more blocks can be held in the cache then with a smaller cache. With a smaller cache, you're swapping out blocks more often then with a larger cache. This becomes a problem for servers trying to keep several processes running at the same time, especially servers that run applications (web, FTP, etc).

For file and print servers, a Celeron won't be a problem. For servers that run applications, a Celeron will be hinderence. NT's been written to abuse the cache of CPUs (from what I've heard), so more cache is better for NT, even if the cache is only 1/2 the speed of the CPU. Linux and NetWare are probably similar.

This is a gross simplification of cache operation. Current day cache logic does some pretty sophisticated look-ahead stuff to make sure that the cache always has the next chunk of RAM the CPU needs. Having said that, with 128k of cache, even the most sophisticated logic will run out of places to put the blocks it thinks the CPU will need.

And that, in a nutshell, is the argument for PIII's or Xeons over Celerons in server-class machines.



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Primary System: PIII-540 (450@4.5x120), Soyo 6BA+ III, 256MB PC100 ECC SDRAM, G400 MAX in multi-monitor mode. V2 SLI rig. Two Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u monitors, 3Com 3C905, SoundBlaster Live!, Altec Lansing AC5 spkrs, 2nd Parallel Port, WD AC41800 18GB HD, WD AC310100 10GB HD, Toshiba SD-M1212 6x DVD-ROM, HP 8100i CD-RW, Epson Stylus Pro, Sharp JX-9400 LJ-II compatible, OptiUPS PowerES 650, MS SideWinder Precision Pro USB joystick, Logitech 3-button mouse, Mitsumi keyboard, Win98 SE, Belkin OmniCube 4-port KVM

Secondary System: PII-266, Asus P2B BIOS 1008, 128MB PC100 ECC SDRAM, Millennium II, 3Com 3C590, ADSL Modem 640kbit down/90kbit up, 3Com 3C509, Mylex BT-930 SCSI card, Seagate 2GB Hawk, NEC 6x CD-ROM, Linux distro S.u.S.E. 6.1 (IP Masquerade works!)

Tertiary System: DFI G568IPC Intel 430HX chipset, P200MMX, 96MB of non-parity RAM, Millennium II, Intel Pro/100+ client NIC, SoundBlaster 16 MCD, Fujitsu 3.5GB HD, WD 1.2GB HD, Creative Dxr3 DVD decoder card, Hitachi GD-2500 6x DVD-ROM, Win98 SE

All specs subject to change.

[[Pige]]

A G400Max on a PII 350 will suck shit, not worth bothering with.

If you are gonna get a G400 though, do not get the celery to go with it but wait till you can get a P3... as the turbo ICD will only work with a P3.

Best bet for better gaming would be to get a Voodoo 3500 as this is not so processor dependant.

You do not say what monitor you will be running this all with and what rezolutions it will support.


Cheers

Pige

[LAMFDTK]

"A G400Max on a PII 350 will suck shit"

What on earth happened to this world?



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PIII-450@504, 128 HDSRAM, Asus P3BF, G400/32, SBLive!, Nokia 447Xi 17", oh yea, a nice floppy drive

[SCompRacer]

LAMFDTK,

What on earth happened to this world?

"People will expand to the limits society will tolerate?"
Socrates


[This message has been edited by SCompRacer (edited 09-27-1999).]

[IceStorm]

V3500 needs an air conditioner in the case to cool it - it runs that hot.

I can't see how a G400 and PII-350 would be good at vaccuming up excrement.

Eh, you know the rest of my opinions on this - get a PIII-450 and V2 if you're a gamer.

[deejay]

Thanks for the latest replies folks.'G400 sucks shit on a P350'
Hmmm, thats one attribute I didn't read in the reviews.... could this be the soon to be released 'environmental dump mapping' (waits for groans to subside)

Now, last night I had my first go at overclocking ,by altering the jumpers on my MB upping the multiplier to 4x. Didn't notice a scrap of difference in performance, but then at that small jump it would be minimal anyway. What it did do was make my system rather unstable with strange affects on the cd drive, ie, message telling me to put the game disc in when it already there, game music carrying on even after game shut down and cd removed (weird). Switched everything back to how it was, all probs corrected.
Seems like I have one of those locked 350's.

PIGE, The monitor Iam using is the ADI 5GT 17" triniton tube will support above 1600x1200 (can't remember the figures at the moment.)
Thanks for the reply.

cheers
Dave

[[Pige]]

17" running at 1600x1200 hmmmmmm. If you wanna run games at a hi rez then a G400 maybe what you need, although ADI monitors are not noted for there picture quality, so you'd most prob get away with a TNT Ultra.

A G400 wouldn't really show any benifits untill you upgraded both your processor and monitor.

The G400 deffinatly has better 2D when running your desktop at 1600x1200, there will be a noticable gain on a high quality monitor. Though even with a G400 it's not gonna make any diffrence on a 17", you will still end up going blind squinting at the monitor trying to read text.


Pige

[deejay]

Hi Pige,
In defence of the ADI , I agree with you that the picture quality on the PRE 5GT's was fairly average, however when the 5GT was brought out with the triniton tube, the quality went up accordingly and with a .25 dot pitch it is up with the better quality monitors at a very competitive price.
Here at work I use a Iiyama vision master pro and the quality difference is marginal.
If anybody is on the lookout for a decent 17" monitor and not be ripped off then the ADI 5GT is worth a look.

Cheers
Dave