I know this is *more* than just Matrox hardware, but could you guys give me some...

[Grail]

feedback on this system? Oh yeah, I am asking him if he wants a G400 MAX. Lemme work on him for a bit.

My friend is just getting into computers(games. heh) and asked me to put together a system for him. Here is what I have found so far. He doesn't have a lot of money to spend, but enough to cover at least this what I have put down(about $2700 CDN including all extra costs)

Asus P3B-F(leaning towards this board)/Abit BE6(heard there were some problems with the Abit board. IE. http://bxboards.com/mainboard/slot1/be6.shtml )

128/64MB PC 100 Ram (probably Goldstar mem.)

P3 450 (best price for value so far)

Matrox G400 MAX/ Asus 3800 TNT 2? (which is best for support/drivers/quality? Creative? Diamond? Also, might get an Ultra)

TB Montego 2 Quad or Xitel Storm Platinum(gamer's pack)

CD-R suggestions? A good price one. HP 8200? Might be only CD player in system.

Printer - either a HP 710c or Lexmark Z31

Hard Drive(ATA-33 and at least 8 gigs) - suggestions? Seagate? WD? Not too keen on IBM(that is, if they still try and hand people refurbished drives) Before any of you jump on me for not including ATA-66; more than likely, my friend won't upgrade for a while. Plus, the "increases" from ATA-66 won't come into play until the HD themselves are able to go past 33m/bits transfer rate.

Monitor Sony 210GS (either a 15-17 incher)

and maybe a MS Natural Elite/Logitech USB Wheel?

Avoiding the noted areas, what can you improve? Please remember that there is a price cap.
Thanks in advance.

[Marmita]

This config will be the best:
P3-450
ABit BE6 (Great board !!!)
128MB ram CAS2 PC-100 (PC-133 is much more expensive).
G400 MAX (better then any TNT2/Ultra)
Turtle Beach Quadzilla (Vortex 2)
WD Expert 9.1GB 2mb cache udma/66

DON'T TOUCH HP Burners !!!!

take a x4 or x6 SCSI Burner Kit (Teac, Plextor, or Smart&Friendly) whatever you take you should check the amount of cache on the cdr for a x4 optimal is 2mb minimal is 1mb.

what you said about udma/66 is not right. first of all the burst speed of udma/66 drives is much higher, don't forget that the drive's cache has 66mb/sec too. secondly the 66mb/sec is the total bandwidth of the ide controller so if lets say you have a zip drive, a cd-rom and 2 hd, they all together have a combined bandwidth of 66mb/sec, with the Abit BE6 you don't have to upgrade you have a udma/66 controller onboard. you can also take the ASUS p3b-f and add a $40 udma controller if you want this board.

I would really wait with the memory, the prices are very high now and I think the sdram price is in its peak and it will go down in a month or two. if you deside to buy this system now then take a 64mb dimm now and upgrade it after the prices will fall to 128mb. but when you do that I suggest you add a memory of the same speed as your other dimm

[Marmita]

if you are going for a 15-17 inch monitor you can take the G400 DH 32mb and not the MAX you can overclock it the the MAX's speed and the only downside will be you wont have the 360Mhz RAMDAC but then again with a 15-17 inch monitor you wont have use for a 360MHz ramdac and the G400's 300Mhz will be enough.

[Grail]

Thanks for the reply.

If you checked out the url I posted, the Abit BE6 does have it's blemishes. It is for these reasons that I will probably not go with this board. I don't want to give him something that I will probably have to troubleshoot for him.

I have been told by some friends that a Yamaha/Ricoh drive is just as good. Thinking about those.

Touching on the ATA-66 issue, more than likely, he won't be upgrading or adding more hardware to this rig(as stated earlier, he is *new*. I'll let his feet get wet first. Also, he will be on a cable modem, no real need for a sneaker net yet. ).

For the ram, yeah, I just might go that route of only one stick of 64 meg ram, for now.

Lastly, I'll work out the rest of the costs for the computer and software, then get the best monitor I can for the amount of money left.

Thanks for the input. It is greatly appreciated. Any more nitpicking?

[Ron]

Yeah, avoid the WD drive unless it has a compelling price advantage. They have had a QA problem with their drives for the last few years, I would tend to go to Quantam or Fujitsu for drives if I was going IDE, Quantam if you're set on ATA66.



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BX6r2, 128MB PC100, C366A@567, Pan DVDwHollywood+,Pan 4X SCSI CDR, WangDAT, Quantam UDMA HDs, Fireport 40 UW, SBLive!Value (attached to bi-amped TEAC/Hitachi multimedia system), SMC Intel 21041 NIC, etc. G200 Mystique as well.

[DuRaNgO]

and don't forget a lot of fans
jim

[IceStorm]

Peruse my system specs below. Here are some highlights:

Soyo 6BA+ rev III motherboard: This board is ROCK SOLID. No problems whatsoever with it. Popped in my PIII-450, OCed it to 540 (soft CPU settings - woohoo!), and not one component complained.

Superpower case - KS-298: http://www.spower.com/298.htm Yeah, the front is a little odd, but the case is extremely deep - great for keeping your drives from sitting over your motherboard. With an INCLUDED case fan, and a slot for one right over the CPU, this case is good for cooling. Add to that the one-screw panel assembly, and you can't ask for more in the price range ($57).

128MB PC100 ECC SDRAM CAS2 latency (x2): From www.azzo.com, this RAM is guaranteed to operate at 125Mhz. Works great at 120Mhz, and still operates at CAS2 (no need to drop to CAS3).

G400 MAX: Not great for GLide games, but DualHead is an awesome feature, and the visual quality is amazing. Hopefully TurboGL and DX7 optmizations will push it over the top. It's a great card to hold you over until the Voodoo4 comes out (for those who are hardcore gamers).

V2 SLI rig: By no means can a hardcore gamer get rid of a 3dfx card setup in their system GLide is still _THE_ fastest, smoothest API for games designed around it or the 3dfx miniGL (Half-Life, Unreal, Unreal Tournament). Get an SLI rig for cheap ($150 at the most), and be happy.

HP 8100i CD-RW: It's a rebadged Sony CD-RW drive. There is nothing wrong with the 8x00 series from HP. The 8200 has a 2MB buffer and 4x RW speed, while the 8100 has a 1MB buffer and 2x RW speed. HP's tech support, while a toll call, is there 24x7 (out of Colorado).

Monitors: Comes down to Flat-Square vs. Apeture grill. Sony's Trinitron is an example of an apeture grill. You'll trade maximum clarity for smoother colors with an apeture grill, a tradeoff I find worth it, especially for gaming. Flat-squares are curved in all dimensions, while apeture grills are flat in the verticle dimension. Flat-squares are more durable - no wire grill to loosen. If you move a lot, get a flat-square Hitachi or Mitsubishi, or *cough* Mag *cough*.

Hope this helps.



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Primary System: PIII-540 (450@4.5x120), Soyo 6BA+ III, 256MB PC100 ECC SDRAM, G400 MAX in multi-monitor mode. V2 SLI rig. Two Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 900u monitors, 3Com 3C905, SoundBlaster Live!, DeskTop Theater DTT2500 DIGITAL Speaker System (Sweeeeeet!), 2nd Parallel Port, WD AC41800 18GB HD, WD AC310100 10GB HD, Toshiba SD-M1212 6x DVD-ROM, HP 8100i CD-RW, Epson Stylus Pro, Sharp JX-9400 LJ-II compatible, OptiUPS PowerES 650, MS SideWinder Precision Pro USB joystick, Logitech 3-button mouse, Mitsumi keyboard, Win98 SE, Belkin OmniCube 4-port KVM

Secondary System: PII-266, Asus P2B BIOS 1008, 128MB PC100 ECC SDRAM, Millennium II, 3Com 3C590, ADSL Modem 640kbit down/90kbit up, 3Com 3C509, Mylex BT-930 SCSI card, Seagate 2GB Hawk, NEC 6x CD-ROM, Linux distro S.u.S.E. 6.1 (IP Masquerade works!)

Tertiary System: DFI G568IPC Intel 430HX chipset, P200MMX, 96MB of non-parity RAM, Millennium II, Intel Pro/100+ client NIC, SoundBlaster 16 MCD, Fujitsu 3.5GB HD, WD 1.2GB HD, Creative Dxr3 DVD decoder card, Hitachi GD-2500 6x DVD-ROM, Win98 SE

All specs subject to change.

[Grail]

Thanks guys.

Marmita: I am still leaning on the P3B-F, but I am thinking about getting the Promise-66 controller(depends on if my friend wants it. I'll talk to him about the reasons for getting one). Thanks for the clarification on ATA-66.

Merchant2112: This isn't the first system build for me. I am doing a favor for a friend who is just getting into computer (gaming. heh). I'll check out the url.
If you are interested, here is my system:
Mobo:Tyan Thunder 100 (BX w/onboard SCSI)
Vid:Matrox G400 MAX
HD:WD Caviar 6.4(upgrading to SCSI as soon as funds are available)
NIC:3COM 905B-TX
Soundcard:SB Live Value
CPU:Celeron 300A(slot 1)@450 Mhz(thinking about a P3 sometime soon)
RAM:128 PC 100 RAM
CD-ROM:40x Acer(going to upgrade to DVD[w/SCSI?] as soon as funds are available)
Misc:100 Mb Internal Zip Drive(sneaker net with bro. His internet connection isn't the best.)
Monitor:LG Flatron 795FT Plus
KB/Mouse:MS Natural Elite/Logitech USB Wheel Mouse
Oh yeah, and a 3M PMS pad.

Icestorm:Thanks for the info. I still am not sure about the monitor I'll get for my friend. As I said earlier, I'll try and find him the best for the money he has left after buying the rest of the computer. If it comes to it, I'll tell him to buy a TNT or a Celeron and get a *decent* monitor.

Durango:I'll tell him after he gets his feet wet, I'll introduce him to the dark arts of O/C'ing. Then I'll tell him to turn his rig into a wind tunnel.

[rickn]

The WD Expert drives are excellent products. ASUS makes some of the best motherboards, you cannot go wrong with purchasing one. As for UDMA66, dont waste your money on a controller. My WD Expert was slower in an abit BP6 with UDMA/66 than ATA/33 in my ASUS P2B-F. My P2B-F was also faster than the BP6 at the same clock speed -- ASUS allowed for more memory tweaking in the bios

[This message has been edited by rickn (edited 10-04-1999).]

[LAMFDTK]

How does YOUR UDMA/66 and ATA/33 work with your frontside overclocked? just wondering

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PIII-450@504, 128 HDSRAM, Asus P3BF, G400/32, SBLive!, Nokia 447Xi 17", oh yea, a nice floppy drive

[HedsSpaz]

Why are you going with a CD-R? Do you really think your friend needs on if this is his first computer? I mean they're fun and all. I play with the one I have at work all the time, and someday I probably will get one for my computer, but they still cost quite a bit more than plain CDROM. I also can't see the sense in going with only a CD-R. A burner is practically useless anyway if you don't have CDROM to go with it. Unless you plan to actually, heh, back stuff up with it or something. Anyway, thats just something to think about.
As for the mobo, you might want to check out the Asus P3-BF. It's their newest board and supposedly it's really darn good. (it's also still kindof pricey, but hey, you pay for what you get, well, most of the time anyway).

HedsSpaz

[Marmita]

I hate WD drives too and had my own problems with them... BUT this new series of drives (Expert) IS one league above the other drives... hell it oven comes close to a UWSCSI drive (which I also have), the 2mb cache really gives you a big speed advantage and as all other drives in its league its spinning in 7200rpm.
If you really have something against WD I suggest you go for an IBM drive they have a drive with 2mb cache to. Quantum is good but slower, it's in the same speed range as Maxtor drives.

Yamaha and ricoh burners are great too.

I suggest again that you check the price of the rig and think about adding udma/66 it really gives a speed advantage no matter how newbie you are.

glad to help.

[merchant2112]

first complete system build? check out www.compgeeks.com (they have stuff like logitec mouseman wheel for 18.00) and other ods and ends all real cheap. and shipping is realistic no outrageus handleing charges. good return policy. i have rma'ed a cupple of lan cards i thought were bad with out problems. got replacements within a week and found out it was a bad plug and play bios on one of my mainboards cuaseing the problem.


as for a cdr go for a yamaha drive they are the best.

also consider one of the new revision 2 vortex cards from a3d themselfs. they use even less cpu cycles than the orginal chip.
as for the xitel card i have one no problems what so ever and the ref drivers work great with this card.



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hey do you remember when it took your computer 10min to boot up into windows and we thought that was fast? or how about when you upgraded from a 486 dx33 to a dx2 66 and thought wow only 5 min to boot? those were the days now if it takes more than 1 min 30 sec we wonder what is wrong with our system.