AGP speed question

[troop]

Hehe , good morning gentlemen , especially Kruzin ; now listen up : you have decreed that
"When the G400 was in development, regardless of if the specs where written or not,
THERE WHERE NO 4x MOTHERBOARDS. How can anyone build a board that exploits
features that where not a reality at the time of design/development?"

Brialliant stuff here , I'm real impressed.
Kruzin ought to go ask Nvidia ( Riva TNT2 ) and ATI 'bout that . Cause each one has a full 2.0 spec adapter onsale or ready for sale.No dickin around with "x2 @ x4 spec" as Kruzin puts it.

Eg ,__pay attention boyz___I could run the TnT2U at 133 FSB , AGPx4 and PC 133 SDRAM on the APOLLO PRO 133A which has the first commercial 2.0 spec port available.3DMark99 MAX shows that the TnT2 goes x4 . http://www.ixbt-labs.com/mainboard/apollo-pro133a.shtml
Huh ? How did NVIDIA release a card a year before the port was out , eh ?? Did they , ermm , as one member here put it
"Stick it in the spec book " .

Keep beta testing boyz.

Besides name calling and a lack of experience , this thread has nothing.


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In Harm's Way


[This message has been edited by troop (edited 17 October 1999).]

[hominid skull]

Hi all,

I really like this thread, It makes for a really good read.

Keep up the good work, one day troop might just get it. I do see his point though, why make a card 4x compatible when nothing is done with that compatibilty - you might have left it 2x ( except for future upgrade to camino or whatever).



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//** Memory prices SUCK **//

[Rags]

troop,

you still do not know what you are talking about, both ATI and nVidia's new generation chipsets (excluding the GeSpot), have gone through a revision to run AGP 4X. Not ALL TNT2's run 4X, it depends on the TNT2 chip and the board mfr. that makes it. ATI has just in the last month and 1/2 released a revision that allows for 4X operation. Maybe Matrox can do this with a BIOS revision (as some ATI boards can do), to get the AGP 4X. If they don't it won't be any big loss. 4X has absolutely zero gain in the real world right now, unless you are running a GeSpot, in which it uses AGP 4X for something it calls "fast writes". Other than that, you will not find anything (besides synthetic benchmarks) that shows much, if any, improvement running 4X instead of 2X. And if you are running a VIA apollo PRO 133A chipset, you will see that even with PC133, AGP 4X, ATA66, you are still not getting past the performance of the BX chipset in most areas WHY is this?????


Rags

[DuRaNgO]

[P3-733]

Probably would have been fast to move straight into the 820 wasnt around story.

(adapters. hmph. Still couldnt make in through the traces to 440bx and memory faster than 2x...)

[Gurm]

Here's an idea:

Troop, why don't you GET an AGP 4x motherboard. Really, go get one. Then put a G400 in it and see if it runs at 4x. Oh, wait - that's right! You CAN'T GET an AGP 4x motherboard, because they DON'T EXIST! Whoa!

Ok, here's another idea - why don't you get a TNT2 that runs at 4x? Oh, wait - THEY DON'T EXIST EITHER! WHOA! They SAY they run at 4x on the box, but you can't prove that they do, because there's NO MOTHERBOARD TO PUT THEM IN! WHOA!

Holy CRAP! We've just deduced, by perfectly circular logic, that TROOP is a MORON!

- Gurm

P.S. Don't even BOTHER to flame me, you'll only meet up with the BOOMSTICK (tm).


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G. U. R. M. It's not hard to spell, is it? Then don't screw it up!
The word "Gurm" is in no way Copyright 1999 Jorden van der Elst.

[Jorden]

Easy Jason, easy...
You'll only get heartburn from it and then you have to start yet another thread about that

Here, have a cool drink and sit on the couch, watch some Xena or ST: Voyager or something else

Jorden

[MidiSax]

I read the first 6 or so messages. Geez.

What is this passive aggressive thing people do now where they pretend to ask a question when really they are griping and bitching. They always seem to know all the ways to shoot down your answers before you even give them, so why are they asking?

Do they think if they ask more often the answer will change to what they like?

Are they unable to face the answer?

Do they just like to bitch?

I've read the thing about g400 and 4x technical issues at about a dozen sites now, and its very similar to my situation with pc133 ram.

I have 256meg of this ram i bought several months ago, its great but i see now it might not work with some future setups because they intel has changed the spec a little.

The actual spec for 4x transfers was going through many changes even after g400 was laid out i'd reckon. g400 will work in a agp 4x hardware slot in the future luckily enough but to do 4x transfers it would have to be redesigned to accomodate other changes.

Its not the first time something like this has happened in computers or on my side of things sequencers/keyboards. I dont blame anyone, I have to admit I probably would have the same technical constraints if I was a super-duper programmer.

Of course it would be better to have 20/20 foresight.

[motub]

So troop, you really believe that if you buy a vidcard (any make) that says AGP4x on the box, and if you bought an AGP4x mobo (when available), and plugged it it, it'd just work, huh??? A video card designed and manufactured a year or more before the motherboard?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Oh, please excuse me... I forgot, I should be clapping, not laughing [if I believe in fairies, for those of you too young to remember 'Peter Pan']....
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Holly, wondering where troop was during the 1st round of AGP wars, where it took double-page-fold-out charts to find which cards that said they were AGP ran at 1x only and which really ran at 2x.... and who appreciates Matrox not promising more than they are sure they can deliver....
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"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How his love's affecting my reality
Everytime I'm down, he can make it right
And that makes him larger than life..."
(...not to mention being 6'5", eh Jord...? )

[Speedy]

u r weird

[ALBPM]

I think Troop needs a box of 4X Maxi Pads and a bottle of Midol for his attitude.

Paul

[motub]

BTW, hominid skull, I'd think that Matrox invested in designing the G400 to fit in the 4x slot so that idiots... excuse me, "inexperienced users" would not pass the card by thinking that it would not fit in their machine... The shelf life of the G400 falls well within the availability of AGP 4x mobos, with their entirely different slot architecture and voltage... and the card has many benefits that overshadow the lack of 4x transfers.

No reason why buying a AGP4x motherboard should mean that you can't use (therfore won't buy) a G400...! Like in the early days of AGP... no point in buying an AGP card of any stripe if you were running on a TX mobo (no AGP slot)... Matrox has already overcome that objection, before it even happens. Not too shabby, for a small company caught in the middle of (several) specification wars, with a product about to release...

..... ah, hell, I can't stand it...troop, if what you said were true...

And, even then, with no mainbord port to test(like you say is necessary), Matrox designed the G400 to have the x4 interface, but not the protocol, which was just as available , and testable, as the interface. [Emphasis mine]

Then <u>why</u>, (pray tell) are the motherboards with it just <u>now</U> going into production, rather than a year ago??? Idiot.

Sorry, just hadda say it, I know s/he's gone...
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Holly


[This message has been edited by motub (edited 18 October 1999).]