What happens at MURC sometimes...

[Alegria]

Browsing through the threads i recently read on some of the forums I really don't understand why there are so much senseless discussions or even more wild accusations flying around when something is not working as expected. I myself work in a wholesale/retail computer store in Germany and have seen so many different problems with all kinds of graphics adaptors ranging from the cheapest stuff to top-of-the-line equipment. I 've been using Matrox cards from the days of the Ultima series via Millenium, Millenium II G200 and now up to the G400. I've had trouble sometimes getting something to work right but besides waiting for an ICD for the G200 which most of us did I've never experienced being unable to solve an issue. To me Matrox still does a pretty good job in developing new Hardware and supporting Drivers especially looking back to older graphics cards. No other manufacturer besides ATI and 3DLabs or ELSA does that for the affordable range of their products. In my opinion this shows quite some commitment to the whole thing. I would really appreciate reading more constructive criticism (I hate flames) and serious discussions about the problems people have. Surely would encourage me to help people. Not to forget having the satisfaction if somebody finally can say that it helped him/her. Sounds like fun, doesn't it.

Sascha Alegria Mayer
Sorry for my bad english.

[Gavin]

Well Said !

You exactly hit the nail on the head,
I couldn't have said it better myself...

[Jorden]

Sascha, you're welcome to help out wherever you think you can help out. All help is welcome. That's what the MURC is for, help other people with their problems, be it at a general PC level, games, video-editing related or people who can't get their general Matrox videocard to work.

I would really appreciate reading more constructive criticism (I hate flames) and serious discussions about the problems people have. Surely would encourage me to help people.

We're not really discussing what could be wrong, there's just lots of people who think they can help a person with a problem, by giving him their advice on how to do things. This could read as 40 possible solutions to a problem for that person asking for help. Yet sometimes s/he refuses to do something someone else asked her/him to do, even if it could be the key-solution to the problem.

You say you work in a wholesale/retail computer store. What if a customer complains to you that his new monitor is screwed up and only showing a little picture in the middle of the screen, and you tell him to use the OSD menu to adjust it, but he refuses, saying it can't be that?

Will you give him another monitor you tweaked yourself, or will you try to get him to follow your instructions, because you know that that's the problem??

That's what we're trying to do here. It's just that some people think they know better, while all the time it was something simple they overlooked. No need to flame a person.

We did that at first with Madman, look what it brought him. Then I turned around and went to look for the problem as well, and so did lots of people. For someone who still comes back and asks for more help (may it be in another thread) is someone who can be helped if he's willing to let us help him.

Ofcourse there are others who do differently and they still have problems, or just ran and changed their Gx00 for another videocard and probably sit whining at another BBS/Forum now that their videocard isn't doing what they want it to do.

We're here to help. If you want to help along, join us. You're welcome.

And about the English... Your's is very good. Compliments. Could use a couple more commas (,) and periods/full-stops (.) though

Jorden.

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Official MURC-police
Official MURCaholic !!
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You and me baby, ain't nothing but mammals
So lets do it, like they do on the Discovery Channel
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Holly is nr. 1


[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 09 November 1999).]

[Nuno]

Hi, Alegria (nice name, btw, alegria means joy in portuguese )

If you allow me, I´ve a few comments to make:

I really don't understand why there are so much senseless discussions or even more wild accusations flying around when something is not working as expected

I agree things heat up a bit sometimes, but most of the times it´s a matter of attitude of some people who come bragging about their shiny new Gxxx don´t working. There are many people in these fori who are really experts in PC stuff (not myself, I´m here for quite a while, but my field of expertise is somewhere else ).
Example:
Person X starts complaining about my G400 can´t do AGP 2x as advertized.
Members - System specs please.
Person:blah blah, Via motherboard, blah.
Members: Via chipsets usually don´t do well with AGP 2X and G400. But that´s ok, you can´t notice the diference between AGP 1x and AGP2x anyway.
Person X: WHAT? WTF? So I buy a AGP 2x card and it can´t do it? I SHOULD HAD GONE TNT2 INSTEAD!!!
Members: G400 AGP implementation stresses the system more than other agp card. It uses dime mode while tnt´s use dma. dime 1x is roughly as fast as dma 2x. And let´s face it, via chipsets don´t have a very nice agp suport.
Person X: I don´t care, G400 is a piece of s**t. blah blah blah
Members: S T F U

I could mention some similar stories with IRQ sharing, IRQ not assigned to VGA...

I've never experienced being unable to solve an issue

So you know what I mean...

Apart all that stuff: Be welcome!

PS: Ooops, I took too much time to write this and didn´t see Jorden´s post... But I see at least we both agree in the point I was trying to make...


[This message has been edited by Nuno (edited 09 November 1999).]

[Kruzin]

Ant made a lovely new forum just yesterday that is perfect for this thread. Just go to the bottom of the page, and "hop to" Soapbox.

[KvHagedorn]

Nuno, that cracked me up.

btw, Sascha, your English is fine. Better than that of many Americans.

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Kind Regards,

KvH


[This message has been edited by KvHagedorn (edited 09 November 1999).]

[paulcs]

It's funny. Matrox's unusual implementation of AGP makes it difficult for some people to get verification of AGP 2x performance, but ironically, the real world differences in performance from AGP 1x to 2x are negligible at best.

We've yet to see any quantifiable advantages to running the G400 at AGP 2x, yet people really want to see that "2x" in Sandra. I guess it makes them feel like everything is running properly, despite the fact that the board runs just as well "improperly."

Getting back on topic, I've suspected for a while that the free-wheeling, signal-to-noise atmosphere here sometimes gives newcomers the impression they have a license to be rude. And then we reward them (after taking them to task) by doubling our efforts to fix their problem.

No part that I'm aware of gets the support that the G400 gets here. Shriek the name of the head of Matrox's tech support department, and he appears. As if polluting your system with untested drivers wasn't enough, beta testers seem to feel obliged to act as a 24 hour tech support team. Forum regulars feel a similar responsibility, and some would kill to pollute their systems with untested drivers.

In what appears to be chaos, there are subtle rules of behavior which are strictly enforced. Couple that with an almost bizarre affection people have for Matrox, as if it were Geppetto's workshop, and people are going to respond negatively and take personally unwarranted criticisms of the firm. Thus the flaming.

(By the way, I think this worked against Matrox during the OpenGL debacle. People acted as if they were betrayed, as opposed to acting like angry consumers with a product that didn't work as advertised.)

I think all this stuff feeds off each other and adds to the charm of the place.

By the way, I think Madman is a standup guy. He was having some awful problems, was extremely upset, made a mistake, took his lumps, and he is still here. How often have we seen people in similar situations disappear?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[motub]

Welcome in, Alegria! Glad to have you onboard.

(And Kruzin-- you're right, but the thread's here already... )

Everyone has explained it very well in their various ways, so I won't add more but to say this...

In what appears to be chaos, there are subtle rules of behavior which are strictly enforced.

...thanks, paulcs.... in the near future, expect a faq to be posted making the "subtle rules" a bit more obvious.

I think all this stuff feeds off each other and adds to the charm of the place.

That's exactly what I meant in my post in the What's the salary for being a MURC-er? thread!! If it doesn't 'add to the charm of the place' for someone, they may reach the mythical 1000 post upgrade, but won't quite be a MURC-er, just a long-time member....Thanks again, paulcs, for saying it better and more clearly than I could at the time .

Your English is fine, Alegria, btw...I'd really like to make a little joke here, but I fear it would be misread by any number of people .

Lastly... yes, it's nice that Madman isn't so Mad anymore. Not since the legendary days of Manoj has there been such an intrepid and courageous member to survive the Flames of the Army of M...Excelsior! Long live the MURC!!

...sorry, guys, newbies always get the long .sig...

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Holly
"All you people, can't you see, can't you see
How his love's affecting my reality
Everytime I'm down, he can make it right
And that makes him larger than life..."
(...not to mention being 6'5", eh Jorden...? )
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What? System specs? Oh, yes, right...well, at the moment, it's: Soyo 5EMA, K6-2 333, 256MB PC100 SDRAM, Maxtor 7GB HDD, LS-120, Promise Ultra33 EIDE controller, Diamond Monster Sound MX300, HP 8100i CD-RW, Hi-Val (Nakamichi) 16X 5-disk CD changer, Win98SE ...oh yeah, and a Millennium G200 8MB SGRAM. I'll get to installing my G400MAX in the DFI BX board... soon. Really.



[This message has been edited by motub (edited 09 November 1999).]

[Rags]

....6'5"

Come on, it surely couldn't be that big...

Rags

[motub]

For Pete's sake, Rags, it's retractable, what's the problem?????

Geez... all up in my business... like you got some kinda hope... don't you know that our streaming video is waaaaay too rich for your blood, boy...!

(gotcha )

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Holly

[Jorden]

Is that why Matt (Rags) is selling his cats in the Happy Shopper ??

I wondered

Jorden, all 6'5" slumped in a chair...

[merchant2112]

bah hum bug....

oh forgetit.

[Nuno]

Hi KvH that was only the first part, in the second person X looses it completely and start flooding the forum, bomb-mailing all the members and then he goes to canada, to 1025, St-Regis Blvd., Dorval, Quebec and he protest naked doing stange things with a cat in front of the door...

[This message has been edited by Nuno (edited 09 November 1999).]