Matrox newsgroup was no help - please advise on G400 Max display problems!

[SinoSurfer]

I put together a brand new system (PIII-500) that is using an Abit BF6 mobo and a G400 Max. I've experienced no IRQ conflicts, crashes or resets. My problem has to do with the appearance of purple-colored artifacts that appear around icon buttons in Windows Explorer and Media Player, etc. Also noticeable are extra-bright pixels that appear on the screen when I'm playing a DVD movie or MPEG media files. Other than these two isses, the card is running fine, although I did have to use the Registry Hack utility to force it to 2x AGP, because the default installation was at 1x. Quake 3 demo test at 800x600, 32-bit produced 46.7 fps, and no artifacts on the screen.

It has been extremely frustrating because I've tried everything including taking out all my PCI cards and running a "bare" system with just the G400 MAX and the hard drive connected to the mobo. But these display artifacts remain.

What confuses me even more is that when I tried the G400 MAX on a friend's machine (PII-300), there are no problems. I then tried an ATI Rage Pro in my Abit board, but everything ran fine. But I put my G400 MAX back in, and the problems reappear.

I am not overclocking, although these display artifacts are reminiscent of artifacts you get when overclocking. The only other issue I've noticed is that the card doesn't seat very snugly into the AGP port, but there's not too much I can do about that. The ATI Rage Pro card seems to fit more snugly.

I'm basically ready to conclude that my card is defective, but before I send it back and possibly get a new one that will produce the same problem, can anyone help with suggestions on further troubleshooting or suggestions?? I'm really frustrated at this point.

I'm at work, so I don't have my IRQ settings here, but as I said, I tested the system with all my PCI cards pulled out. On a side note, even where there are a lot of free IRQ's available, this one "IRQ for PC Steering" ALWAYS seems to want to share an IRQ with the G400 MAX, even when I manually set it to a particular IRQ in my BIOS. The card is on IRQ #9 right now. I'm using a Promise Ultra66 controller, although I pulled that out too when I tested my "bare" configuration.

Thanks in advance for you help!

[Wombat]

Your problem is probably the Abit board. I am not criticizing the board, but dozens of people had a problem with the G400 not fitting it correctly. There are people on this board that can give you more explicit help, but I'm not an Abit owner.
If this thread doesn't get the appropriate attention, re-post in this forum with a title like "How do I fit Abit & G400?". I'm sure you'll get the attention of the right people that way.
Good luck, and don't get discouraged.

-Wombat

------------------
K6-2/350@400, 503+ rev 1.2a, 128MB PC100 RAM, Millenium G200, RH6.1 w/ 2.2.12-20, Win98, and too many classes

[Shazbot]

IRQ holder for PCI Steering is your friend.. It's not a device, it's only Windows' way of coping..
I hope more people are getting this message, because I've seen extremely many posts regarding this "monster" that comes back after reboots

[Wombat]

Hey, have you tried AGP 1x. Sometimes 2x just isn't stable. It's also a sign of card mis-alignment.

[paulcs]

I suspect you've got to get your board properly seated in the AGP slot. It's hard with some motherboards coupled with some cases. I swapped out my motherboard over the weekend, and I had a hell of a time getting it properly seated. It was so bad, I couldn't even get my machine to boot.

I used brute force, which is probably *NOT* the way to go. Others have posted more subtle methods and hopefully will chime in when they get a chance. But you really should get the darn thing properly in the slot, or you very well might start experiencing other problems as well.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[DaStudent]

Hello,

Well, if it worked fine in another system, then it's probably not the card. That's one of the first questions tech support will ask (ie: if the card worked in another system?). So replacing probably isn't go to be very usually. (You might want to look into replacing that abit though).

So in your case some of the regular suggestions would be, make sure have the latest M/B bios, (usually only for SS7 but with via making pentium-ii/iii m/b chipset.. who knows). Play with the size of your AGP aperature. (in M/B BIOS). Try setting PNP OS installed to False (ie: force second pass in resource mapping). Make sure IRQs are set to AUTO, check for an option for IRQ trigging set it to level. (I know I am reaching, but it works for RRs)

Now for some more "out-there" suggestions

1) Disable Device Bitmaps caching, you should have this option in your powerdesk advanced or similiar (using NT right, so I can't tell you exactly where).

2) Make sure your Memory can support the Front Side Bus speed you are running at. At make sure the dividers are set the AGP is gettting the correct freq

3) Try Changing the memory in your system.

4) Any chance on getting your hands on another G400 and trying it?

5) As a last result disable Bus mastering. (as a debugging measure). See if this helps.

6) Was this on a clean system. As wierd icon corruptions are usually a result of conflicting drivers.

7) Look into what wombat said...

Let us know how it goes...

Best Regards,
- James

[enKoDed]

There was a bit of mention about the seating problem right here at MURC. See; http://www.murc.ws/News/Octweek02.html

[ALBPM]

I posted these awhile ago in a Thread concerning ABIT boards.



Here's what I think is happening with some cases/mother boards.


Paul

[paulcs]

Thank goodness you're keeping those jpegs handy, Paul. I had some minor difficulties with the Vanilla, but the slot cover on my new Max gave me a really hard time.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[DuRaNgO]

paul is exactly right, check it out!
jim

------------------
PIII-500mhz @ 620 ! with an Abit BE6 mobo
128mb pc-100
Mill G400 (YAHOO!!!) 32mb @ 165/205 with MGATweak-410mhz, (2.5, 2, 2.5), PD 5.30 & bios 1.5-22
Maxtor 14.3 gb Uata66 hdd
SB Live!
Winblows 98se & DX7
32 lbs. of fans, heatsinks and aluminum ductwork
3DMark Result 5954.69 3DMarks
Synthetic CPU 3D Speed 9325.69 CPU 3DMarks
Rasterizer Score 2791.72 3DRasterMarks
Game 1 - Race 65.07 FPS
Game 2 - First Person 54.89 FPS
Fill Rate 268.79 MTexels/s

[cjolley]

The "bad Abit fit problem" (if it realy exists)is always cured by a new card, from what I have seen.
Put the name HAIG in the subject of the question.
As you said; bad single pixels are created by over over clocking.
But, that is because they indicate a memory problem.
This is the first time I have ever heard of this exact set of symptoms. Does the BF6 have a bios update yet? I was going to buy one.
chuck


------------------
ABit BH6 w/ Celery 333@500, 128mb gh@cas2, 10gb IBM@7200, SB Live Value@44kh, noname CDRom@40x, Mitsumi CDRW@2x2x8, Zoom@56k, Princeton EO75@1024x768x32x85hz, USB mouse,Matrox G400 MAX!!!!

[SinoSurfer]

First, thanks to everyone who replied! After posting and getting zero replies from the Abit and Matrox newsgroups, I'm very grateful to those who chipped in their suggestions

Now, to report on some new findings:

1) Disabling the Device Bitmap cache half solves the problem! The display artifacts disappear with it is disabled and the extra bright pixels on MPG's are also less noticeable. However, I know there is still something wrong because Matrox Tech Support sent me a G400 diagnostic program (minidiag.exe) that still hangs the computer when I run it. This ran fine when I had the G400 MAX in my friend's PII-300. Also, if I try overclocking even slightly (i.e. FSB=106), the text and graphics on the screen break up significantly. With Device Bitmap cache ENABLED, I've overclocked to FSB=120 or 600Mhz without any significant deterioration in the display.

2) Yes, I do think now that the problem has to with the card not seating properly in the AGP slot. However, unlike the misalignment depicted in Paul's JPG's, my card seems to be sitting too HIGH up on the AGP slot. That is, there is still quite a bit of space between the angled bracket where I put the screw through and the ATX case. I don't know how to solve this because I can't push down on the card anymore to make it fit more snugly. I played around with it last night, but the fit is pretty loose.

As to some of the other questions, this was a clean install of win98; I've flashed the newest Abit BF6 Bios; I have run it at 1x AGP; Aperture size is set to 256.

- Are all G400 MAX cards made the same?? That is, if I send for a new one, is there a good chance it will also not seat properly?

- By disabling Device Bitmap caching, what benefits in performance do I sacrifice? Why is this potentially causing artifacts on the screen?

- This is kind of 'out there', but can I sand down G400 to make it shorter and have it fit better?

I guess if I want near flawless display, then I'll have to disable device bitmap caching, but also forgo any possibility of overclocking. This would be disappointing, because this is a big reason why we buy Abit mobo's

[paulcs]

Sounds like your case might be the problem. Did the board fit nicely into your friend's machine?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[SinoSurfer]

Paul:

Yes, the G400 Max did fit nicely into my friend's board (Asus). However, his ATI Rage Pro, albeit an older generation card, fit nicely into my Abit. So, can I really conclude that it's the fault of my Abit board?

[SCompRacer]

The way the AGP cards are designed you can see if the "bracket" edge of board is touching the AGP slot connector on MB, but the opposite end of the AGP board has a recess so it does not touch the slot connector at all.

Push it in fully and use mark, vision, or dial indicator, to see if card pulls out when screw is tightened. Seems to always pull out of rear of slot where it's difficult to gauge depth due to the recess in board.

It could be the case design as well. Some less expensive cases using thin sheet metal will actually flex when picked up pulling cards out of slots slightly along with poor fit tolerances. Just be observant at all times when assembling and tweak to fit.

ALBPM has got the best jpegs, and I nominate him to be in charge of all visual illustrations on MURC. Then the monkey and that Winner banner would go away then.


[This message has been edited by SCompRacer (edited 24 November 1999).]