Who has the G400 4A model that support AGP 4x ?

[Haig]

Actually, each time you 2x the power wattage, you only increase the power output by 3db.

Haig

[Jorden]

ROFLMAO^{tm (ALBPM)}...!!!, Haig.

The best non-answering answer Haig's ever made

Jord.

[mynx]

And the average human can't hear a 3db difference.
My G400 only does 2X, which is all my motherboard can do.
My G200 only did 1X, which is all my old motherboard did.
When I build an athlon 1ghz system I'll buy a 4x matrox Gxxx.
Quality over quantity

[Guru]

My MAX is 2X but who cares?

[Nuno]

And I though this whole agp dilemma had already ended?

Kruzin is right (for a change ) bigger is better right? Of course. Those people will be the first ones to spend the big bucks with rdram and then look at the ram stick and ooooh aaaaaah about the eeeeeeh mb/s rambus is capable, although the system is actually SLOWER because no aplication has the need for that bandwidth and rdram latency is higher. But don´t worry Intel has already stated that FUTURE apps coming soon that will take advance of that $$$ memory. Yes, exactly as they said when they released the LX chipset - you now can´t see the true advantage of AGP, but in a few months, non-agp systems are nothing but obsolete. Oh yes. That´s why a voodoo3 pci is just as fast in most games as a TNT2 AGP.

[Bixler]

This is a little reference point for Haig and ThePit's posts above. Here's what it means:

3db is the smallest increment of volume increase that the typical human can detect. It takes twice the raw wattage running through a loudspeaker to get 3db. This type of relationship is what is known as a logarithm, and the cause of more wasted money (in Audio)in the world. It always made me smile when a customer would tell me how much louder and better his new 100 watt amp was than his old 75. Same analogy applies here (not perfect, OK) about 1x 2x 4x or Xx.

Yes, to several above, more efficient speakers will respond to power increases with a greater apparent/relative volume increase, but.... Important! Efficient doesn't mean better sound!!! Just LOUDER sound) All the differences are slight, Very Slight.

If only the discounters hadn't run everyone else out of the business, I'd be a millionaire--God was it easy to F**K with spec. chasers and their money. Thanks Kruzin and Ant for lettin it ride.

[This message has been edited by Bixler (edited 22 December 1999).]

[agallag]

My friend has a 120watt Rotel amp that sounds a hell of a lot better (and louder) than my 500watt JVC receiver (could also be because he's got it plugged into a set of $2500 speakers, and mine are 25 year old second hand pioneers, but I digress...).

Anyway, I'm sure my 2x g400 is much better than, say, a 4x trident would be. There are much more important factors to performance than the agp speed people. This one really doesn't make a cow puckie of a difference

[Agent31]

If the amplifier is not within its sweet spot power range, it won't sound its best, no matter what speakers you hang off it, the key is, to match the speaker sensativity to the amplifiers output, in such a way that when the amp is in it's sweet spot, the speaker output is at the sound level you like to listen at... makes sense doesn't it?

now, go and find a hi-fi shop that will help you do that!

FYI, the THX spec for speaker efficency is 85db @ 1 watt @ 1 metre through the front channels, diff through the surround channels...

[This message has been edited by Agent31 (edited 23 December 1999).]

[Haig]

Also, the pre-amps in most low and mid range systems don't give you too much headroom to reach that sweet spot. That sweet spot is usually replaced with distortion

Another gimmick is with all these new cd players popping up with 100x oversampling.

Get yourself a thin piece of black paper, cut it out in the shape of a cd and put it on top of the cd. This will make the audio sound warm rather than that harsh digital noise you hear on the high frequencies.

No need for oversampling it to death

Haig

[paulcs]

Hmmmm. Interesting strategy. All AGP 4x whinefests evolve into discussions of driving in Australia and stereo equipment (with the occasional penis reference).

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Agent31]

Haig, that's an interesting tip about the black paper! I've got my CD player up on those fancy anti-resonance feet right now, they used to be under my DVD player, but I couldn't see or hear any difference with that, so I put them under my CD player.

My view is that the pre-amp is the single most imporant element in the system. It handles all the signal switching, and carries the purest stage of the signal, a bad pre-amp can ruin an otherwise good system, on the other hand, a good pre-amp can take an average system to another level.

As for the speed limits in Australia, it's actually 110Kph in country areas, and there is no limit in the NT, which is no good to those of us whos cars aren't very fast!

[This message has been edited by Agent31 (edited 23 December 1999).]

[Delany]

Agent31,

How much of WA has 110Kmh?
I'm from NSW and it is only the area out west of Dubbo etc that is 110. (apart from expressways of course)...

WA is the only state i haven't been to so i don't know much about it.

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Gigabyte GA686BX, 128MB PC100 Ram, Millenium G400 MAX, Creative Labs SBLive!, Netgear FA310TX, Sony 32X CD-Rom, Imation LS120, 5.2 & 12.7GB Quantum HD's, Everything being driven by Win98...and occassionally Redhat 6.0

Bored Yet?


[This message has been edited by Delany (edited 23 December 1999).]

[Agent31]

Before anyone bursts into flames because we're talking off topic, I want everyone to know, it's just tough luck!

Basically, as soon as you get south of Kwinana, or north of Two Rocks it's up to 110. I've heard that they are going to reduce it back to 100 though.

Good to meet a fellow Aussie in here!

Dave

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PIII 500@560 (2.2V) - ABit BH6 (NV) - 128MB Corsair CAS2 - 3D Blaster GeForce (135/183) 12 MB Voodoo2 - SBLive! Value - ViewSonic PS775 - 8.4 + 4.3Gb Quantum Fireball CRs & so on.

[Bixler]

Neat Trick Haig! I'm gonna see if I can tell on my Yamaha NS1000's.

Lets get back on topic here! It's good to finally find some discussion about which I think I know a little. And by way of restoring the topic to the real discussion lets return to the Audio/Comp spec analogy.

95% of what you hear is the quality of the final link in the system--the loudspeaker. The other 5% is taken up with all of the other components. The analogy gets a little stretched going back to comps and all of the components involved, but it still holds true that the overwhelming difference in what you see on your monitor is...(dum ta da dum!)the monitor and the video card. Fact is that you can't define what you see, just like you can't really define what you hear, so Comp Mfrs. have gleefully fallen into the old audio spec chase, and we all deserve what we get.

Look! With your Eyes! Enjoy, and just hope that Matrox doesn't get buried by a bunch of meaningless numbers while they continue to design and produce a card that is designed holistically--to give you the best VISUAL performance.

My 20 year old Yamaha NS1000's are legendary for thier inefficiency--so I can't rattle the windows in the next county. But with GOOD SMOOTH power, Quality recording, and other components that STAY OUT OF THE WAY, I can sit on my livingroom floor and feel 32 hz, while Thelma Houston's voice is right in front of me. (Yes, I still have (gasp) a turntable

Thanks for weighing in Haig. I'm gonna try it--never knew that an analog piece of paper would make any difference to a bunch of little dots on plastic. INTERESTING!

Cheers

[Jorden]

Interesting indeed Next lesson: How to burn your own audio CD's with that piece of black paper If only you could do that...

I work at a school, and looked for the material, but all we have is the white trace paper. Will it work with this as well??

Jorden.