Who has the G400 4A model that support AGP 4x ?

[Agent31]

I thought my car analogy was a little closer to the mark, but seeing how we're on the topic.

So, Bixler, you're saying you could hook up a $15K pair of Nautilus' to a minisystem and they would sound good? Kinda like plugging a GeForce or a G400Max (I mention both because they are the best cards on the market right now) into a K6 233 system? I'm not on the offensive here, your statement lead me to wonder, as it would seem you are one of the few that actually listen to music.

[Tacco]

I was out shopping for a G400 today and most of the retail versions on the shelves (Ottawa Canada) were 4A.

Cheapskate that I am, I opted for an OEM and for my sins I have to wait a few days for it to arrive. Must say though - AGP 4x is not one of my high priorities at the moment (2x Motherboard that's going to last at least another 12-18 months I hope). I'l let you know if a 4A arrives.


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Steve "Crash" Roberts

[This message has been edited by Tacco (edited 24 December 1999).]

[Bixler]

Agent 31:

Your car analogy was excellent! Much more complete and truer to all of the variables. Just not the one about which I am knowledgeble. I enjoyed it!

And PaulCS nailed it too with the Spinal Tap thing.

So, Bixler, you're saying you could hook up a $15K pair of Nautilus' to a minisystem and they would sound good?

Yes! If you want to make the greatest difference with ONE component, I am saying EXACTLY that. "Good" is relative. Sitting in a REAL room, and listening to well recorded music, the $15K speakers would have a FAR greater cumulative effect on the actual sound your EARS hear(in the analogy to video cards, your EYES see) than all of the other components in the chain combined. Even on a cheap 15 watt portable working within specs, your $15K speakers will make FAR more difference than all of the other specs that apply to the sound you hear from the start to the end of the chain. Put a power meter on any stereo system playing at normal volumes and you'll find an average output of no more than 15 watts anyway...the rest is just headroom (a good thing, true, but stay in the real world.)

This 1x 2x 4x crap is like (in your car analogy) thinking that you can go faster with a better fuel filter in the same little old Volkswagen, using the same engine and gasoline.

Better yet, so what if the "speed limit" in WA is 200Kph (or any other speed) The highway may allow it, but the car won't go! Until everything else, (Programs, processor, Motherboard, Memory, Bandwidth) is optomized, SO WHAT if the speed limit is AGP 4x.

OK guys, whine and cry for your 4x AGP, and when you get it, imagine that your dick is twice as large...enjoy the fantasy. In the meantime, I'll be happily enjoying the same rich, smooth, detail on my monitor.

God what FUN! I love you Aussies, even if you are getting f**ked by exchange rates. Keep the faith.

[Agent31]

well said, though I still don't necessarily agree with you on the speaker issue

[RAB]

Bixler,
For the record, 3db is a noticable change that anyone can hear. 1db is the least amount of change in sound pressure level that most people can detect - that's why the unit was chosen. A 3db increase in SPL requires doubling amplifier power.

As far as speakers making the most difference, you are right IN MOST CASES. But once you've heard the difference a good Audio Research or conrad-johnson tube pre-amp can make, you might have to change your opinion. Unfortunately, these start at about $2000.

RAB
Dahlquist DQ10's. Now I'm really showing my age.
How did we get on this topic?

[Bixler]

RAB:

DQ10's? Wow! Fine taste, my boy!

It all comes down to opinions...and very subtle at best. The main point remains, we are arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

I've enjoyed being reminded about the fallacy of spec chasing. I Got out my old Vinyl discs tonight, and had a Ball with Thelma Houston on my 20 yr old speakers.

[Agent31]

I suppose my Tannoy Revoloution R3s are a bit young to be mentioned in this discussion then?

[Bixler]

Agent 31:

To the truly insane (I sense some kindred spirits here, Hi RAB and Paulcs ) there hasn't been a real improvement in Amplifier design since the old vacuum tube days, and any loudspeaker that's less than 30 years old just doesn't cut it! HeHeHe.

I had to give up my audio religion and enter a 12 step program about 15 years ago, so I haven't really kept up with the latest. I will tell you this...(I can feel the flames a commin! )...there hasn't been a true breakthrough in speaker design since Paul Kloss sealed the speaker cabinet with the Acoustic Suspension design back in the 50's. There are very few of these types still made--they are hard to sell because they don't A/B in a "same power" comparison very well. They need lotsa juice, but Oh! when you give em power, you can get the flattest response curve available...right down to the subsonic level.

OK--Back to Comps and the relative merits/effects of the various specs and components, here's the analogy. The old inefficient Acoustic suspension speaker design versus the equalized, ported, high efficiency speaker systems that dominate today compare like the G400 and the Geforce. I understand from the Fori heavyweights that the G400 is more responsive to upgrades in processor power. If true then it is 'less efficient'. OK. The Geforce, on the other hand could be described as more 'efficient' since you don't get the same percentage performance increase with an upgrade in processor power. Total speed is not the issue here, it's just a matter of what combination of components you use to get the same numbers. The fallacy spec chasers fall for is assuming that efficiency is some holy grail that describes one component as being 'better' than another.

Not So dear readers. The only comparison is your eyes (or ears)...use em.

I suppose my Tannoy Revoloution R3s are a bit young to be mentioned in this discussion then?

(Sigh) I wish I could enjoy them with you, but that's the problem with Audio--no long distance. I'm only going to OPINE on what I know, but I bet they are Awsome. There are many good'uns out there.

Thanks Agent, for keeping the tone friendly as we blow time over the holidays on these stupid boxes. And the audio religious are even more rabid than computer geeks, so watch out, we could be seeing some heat. Right now, I'm gonna go get a Fosters! g'day!



[This message has been edited by Bixler (edited 24 December 1999).]

[RAB]

Hey Bixler,
What we need to do is start reviewing computer speakers and sound cards. I'll drag my DQ10's over to the computer and hook them up and try some different sound cards. God knows you'll never hear the difference in sound cards on the puny, piece of crap speakers we all have on our computers.

On second though, maybe it would be easier to review computer speakers. They only weight about a pound and are much easier to move. If I get a chance today, I'll run a frequency response on the Altec Lansing ACS54's hooked to my Aureal SQ2500. Boy these speakers sound like crap. But so do all the $100 speakers out there. My 2 channel AL ACS 45.1's sounded much better, but still not hi-fi.

On third thought, lets move this to the General Hardware forum. What speakers are you guys using? See you in GH.

RAB
What are you using for computer speakers?

[Bixler]

Good idea RAB:
http://forums.murc.ws/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000899.html

Hey Kruzin, Just don't delete your standard cut and paste post on AGP 1x 2x 4x...You know they'll be back. See you on the General Hardware side for some fun stuff...whiners can stay behind.

Join us Aussies! I'd like to hear about those Tanny's