How to disable G400 "Side-Banding" on Win2000 BOX

[Rags]

Hi R. Kaneko,

I don't see what your problem is, because if you are disabling sidebanding, then your AGP aperture is not going to make any difference. When you disable sidebanding, you are effectively disabling the AGP capabilites of your card, you will not be able to texture from memory, so if you insist on having it disabled, then leave it at an aperture where the software allows you to have it disabled. Make sense, doesn't it?

Rags

[Galvin]

I get the opposite, if I disable busmastering and activate 3D I get a crash.

[PaulS]

Also, you can use the dxdiag tool to turn AGP texturing off.

Paul

[R. Kaneko]

How to disable G400 "Side-Banding" on Win2000 BOX

"Bus Mastering" off is too bad;-) That will cost us a big performance hit.
Especially a lot of Win2000 user seems have to do this, whether they are
runnning Win2000 or NOT...

I'm using the ASUSTec P3B-F (Rev 1.03 with 1004 BIOS) with Coppermine 700MHz,
Matrox G400 32MB DUAL MAX (PDesk for Win2000(5.00.013)) on Win2000 (Build2195).

G400 crashes when 3D-Mode is activated. But this happens only when Bus
Mastering is activated. But without Bus Mastering there is no performance;-)

I tried to increase P3B-F's AGP Apperture Size up to 256MB and to set the
AGP settings to 1X but ad no effort. But when I set to it down 16MB, 8MB,
4MB my system never crash and very very stable.

# So I suspect "AGP sidebanding"...

As everyone knows EnTech Taiwan's PowerStrip has function side-banding off.
So I tried to test it. Here is result.

In case of PowerDesk for Win2000(5.00.013) "Bus Mastering" ON
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Local Non-Local DirectX Memory sba off
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[4MB] 24.7MB + 3.9MB = 28.6MB OK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[8MB] 24.7MB + 7.9MB = 32.6MB OK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[16MB] 24.7MB + 15.9MB = 40.6MB OK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[32MB] 24.6MB + 0.0MB = 24.6MB CRASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[64MB] 24.7MB + 31.9MB = 56.6MB CRASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[128MB] 24.7MB + 31.9MB = 56.6MB CRASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
[256MB] 24.7MB + 31.9MB = 56.6MB CRASH
------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Win2000 RTM(Build2195) + PowerDesk for Win2000(5.00.013) on ASUS P3B-F
at True Color (32bit) 1600x1200 - 90MHz

In case of PowerDesk for Win2000(5.00.013) "Bus Mastering" OFF...

The result is ALL OK in setting AGP Aperture size 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB, 64MB,
128MB, 256MB. I can turn off Side-banding and turn on again.

When I set option use "Bus mastering", I can only set "Side-banding off"
at 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB. I can't set it at 64MB, 128MB, 256MB. What can
everyone know from these results!? What are "Bus Mastering ON" doing???
Why can't I set side-banding off in case of 64MB, 128MB, 256MB with "Bus
Mastering ON"??? What do you think?

I would like to disable Side-banding OFF at 64MB, 128MB, 256MB.
Anyone know how to disable it?

[Ashley]

Disabling SBA does *not* disable AGP transfers. And when you disable AGP support in DXDiag, AGP transfers are still enabled - they are just not used by DirectX.

[R. Kaneko]

Hi all!

As Mr. Ashley already wrote, Disabling SBA does *not* disable AGP transfers.
Mr. Rags, If you're looking for a good explaination of what sideband is, take a look at this:-)
http://epsilon.silicon.net.my/adrian...banding_01.htm

There are many different kind of mobo. But we never know the signal loading
from each mobo. So some of mobo may reflect noise to the sideband signal.
I suspect G400 is senstive on it... If you enable the sideband and take AGP
for command transfer then it is easilly to get system crush on those kind of
system, I think...

G400 can directly read data/command from system memory at AGP full speed.
If our system memory can not runs so higher and stable or if our chip set do
not have good bus arbistration, then it is easilly to get crush too. Since,
G400 and cpu, pci, HDD, cache flush,... all directly read/write data to system
memory, the bus cycle coherence will happen very often.

Disabling the SB signal will reduce this case, I think. So for unstable system,
SB disable will be good solution.

My conclusion is that keep AGP but disable side-banding;-)

[Rags]

Hi R. and Ashley,

I am fully aware of what sidebanding is. The fact is that if you disable it with the G400 and it's current drivers, you will not get AGP texturing. I have tried this many times, and could not get AGP texturing to work. Maybe one of you could test it yourself to see, but I just tried it again tonight on W2K, and it still holds true. BTW, try disabling sidebanding on a GeForce, and see how well it runs =P

Rags

[Ashley]

Rags - actually, you can't disable SBA on a G400 w/o hanging the system, which is, of course, one way to disable AGP texturing...

(If you were able to disable SBA dynamically, it would probably be because AGP transfers were disabled in the first place.)

The GeForce makes for an interesting comparison, but not the way you imply. Actually, the GeForce is currently shipping with SBA disabled by default, and some users are demanding a way to enable SBA in the hopes of more performance.

With the G400, it seems some users are asking for a way to turn SBA off, because otherwise they have to disable bus mastering at quite the performance hit.

[R. Kaneko]

Hello again Rags,

> The fact is that if you disable it with the G400 and it's current drivers,
> you will not get AGP texturing.

So why can I set SBA off at 4MB, 8MB and 16MB with "Bus mastering" ON???

> I have tried this many times, and could not get AGP texturing to work.
> Maybe one of you could test it yourself to see, but I just tried it again
> tonight on W2K, and it still holds true.

What is your mobo? And how to disable SBA at 64MB, 128MB and 256MB???

> BTW, try disabling sidebanding on a GeForce, and see how well it runs =P

hmm... BTW what is your conclusion in this matter??? If we will not get
AGP texturing when we set to SBA OFF, its depsnd upon Matrox drivers?

[Rags]

Hi Ashley,

(If you were able to disable SBA dynamically, it would probably be because AGP transfers were disabled in the first place.)

Correct, that is my experience. I have to have my AGP aperture set to below 16MB, which I cannot use AGP texturing at that level, anyhow

R.,

What is your mobo? And how to disable SBA at 64MB, 128MB and 256MB???

My motherboards are a BH6, a BE6, and an FIC VB601. I cannot disable SBA without going to 16MB and under on the FIC, and 32MB and under on the Abits.

hmm... BTW what is your conclusion in this matter??? If we will not get
AGP texturing when we set to SBA OFF, its depsnd upon Matrox drivers?

All I know is that SBA does not work on the GeForce with it's current drivers

This is my guess, but it may make some sense, if you are having problems with busmastering on, then there is a setup problem in your system. Obviously if you are having lockups in only specific apps, while others are okay then it may, or may not be a setup problem. I have W2K as well, if there are any you want me to try, show me a link where I can download them, and I will try them.

Rags

[Gurm]

Ok, one more time:

If you have to disable Bus Mastering, the problem is NOT your G400. It is the rest of your system. It is irrespective of OS. Windows 2000 is, perhaps, slightly less tolerant of problematic hardware than Win9x. But it has nothing to do with the OS per se - if the rest of your system is up to par, which I am presuming it is not.

Try getting everything else squared away before blaming the card or the OS.

And disabling ANYTHING isn't the answer, although some people have more luck making AGP 1x work than AGP 2x (not that 2x is even used anyway...)

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Ashley]

Actually, the interesting thing with R. Kaneko's results is that, with a small aperture, he *does* have AGP enabled and apparently working properly - otherwise there would be no non-local memory available to DirectX.

So with a small aperture (32mb or less), AGP is enabled and his system is stable with BM on. When he sets the aperture above 32MB, AGP transfers fails and he has to turn BM off.

[R. Kaneko]

Mr. Gurm,

> If you have to disable Bus Mastering, the problem is NOT your G400.
<snip>
>Try getting everything else squared away before blaming the card or the OS.

I never blame the card, OS both;-) Of course I've tried everything and found
this result...

As Mr. Ashley followed up, with a small aperture, AGP is enabled and my system
is very very stable with Bus Mastring on. But when I sets the aperture above
32MB, AGP transfers fails and I have to turn Bus Mastering off.

Yes I don't have to disable Bus Mastering in EVERY CASE. So I want to know why.

And once again...

When I set option use "Bus mastering ON", I can only set "Side-banding off"
at 4MB, 8MB, 16MB, 32MB. But I can't set it at 64MB, 128MB, 256MB. And when
I set option use "Bus mastering OFF", I can set "Side-banding off" at every
aperture size.

What can everyone know from these results!? What are G400 "Bus Mastering ON"
doing??? Why can't I set side-banding off in case of 64MB, 128MB, 256MB with
"Bus Mastering ON"? Do you think relation between Bus mastering and Side-banding?

[R. Kaneko]

Gurm,

> If you can enable BM with only a 32-meg aperture, but NOT with a 128-meg
> aperture or something like that, then there is a problem with either:

# I don't mean can't enable BM with over 32-meg aperture...

I can enable BM with over 32-meg aperture(include 64, 128, 256). In case of
setting over 32-meg aperture, system will crash soon. But system very very
stable and never crash with under 16-meg aperture(include 8, 4)...

> Have you tried disabling video bios shadowing? And have you tried toggling
> video RAM caching from UC to USWC or vice versa? Have you flashed the P3B-F's
> BIOS?

Yes of course I've tried ALL. Tried VIDEO BIOS SHADOW ON/OFF. Tried UC/USWC.
Tried P3B-F's BIOS flush. And also tried P3B-F's BETA BIOS 1004 beta1, beta2.
But nothing change;-)

[Gurm]

It's probably your memory. Based on what you've told us so far, you can't stably achieve 32mb aperture or higher. Since you need a bigger one (you didn't say how much RAM you have but I'm presuming 64mb or more since you're happily running Win2k) this isn't acceptable.

Another thought is that you are running a 700Mhz CPU. This CPU requires:

1. The correct voltage (you may need to tweak this).
2. PC133 RAM (you didn't mention if your RAM was specifically PC133 certified or not).

I'm guessing that your ram is substandard and can't handle Dime transfers at 133mhz.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.