G400's are sensitive creatures, you know

[Jacco Hoeve]

Look at my signature and its sys.config..

Its the same as you have and yes AGP2x ..I had to force it though but it works!

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Jacco

ASUS K7M,Athlon 500MHz,256MB,G400 16MSH(160/200)

[TheMorg]

G400's are sensitive creatures, you know

I've had a number of emails about an intermittent booting problem I have with my K7M/Athlon/G400 setup, from people with the same problem when booting from cold:

1st - Displays near-horizontal lines instead of Win98 logon screen and freezes;

2nd - Win98 boots into a 640x480x16 resolution, and reports that the "Display Settings Are Incompatible With Adaptor";

3rd - Win98 boots into my normal resolution just fine. Subsequent reboots are just dandy too.

Now I know what many's first reactions would be - maybe there's some bus noise or other interference that settles once components warm up. This may be the case, as I know from Kruzin's informative posts how the G400's AGP is relatively sensitive.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'd be grateful - I'll post full system specs when I'm back at my main machine.

But I have a more general suggestion, and I think I should be directing this to Haig...

Knowing that the G400 is particularly sensitive to bus noise and other factors (e.g. PCI slot of an SBLive), could Matrox please take a leaf out of AMD's book and give some guidance on avoiding these problems.

AMD's public acknowledgement of sensitivity on its web site, with lists of recommended hardware to pair with Athlon systems, is commendable. They could have taken the spineless marketing approach, saying "Athlon is perfect, works with everything" and many of us would have been suffering from even more glitches!

I know that the Matrox tech guys that trawl this forum provide a great service for individual queries, but don't you think there's a need for more general "Do/Don't" recommendations a la AMD? It might prevent people from getting into a mess in the first place.

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I suppose I am :¬)

Tim

[Temp]

I had (and still have) exactly the same problem the initial poster descibes.

So, What is the final word on this issue? What is the solution? Will reverting to the 5.3 drivers do it=?

[Nuno]

Don´t blame the G400 so fast... I´ve assembled a Athlon 500/Gigabyte GA-7IX and it did EXACTLY what you are reporting (along with some page faults and windows protection error) because of a 64 Mb DIMM. It was just the matter of looking for another dimm that worked fine.

So I would say Athlons are sensitive creatures

[Temp]

Nuno,

You may be right :-). Anyways, I have no other DIMM, no other motherboard, no other Athlon, and I would like my setup to work. I do not care if it is the Athlon, the K7M or the G400, actually. All I know is that several people suffered from the same problem, that it is a well known issue with the K7M/G400 combo, and that finding a solution would be fine.

[paulcs]

I'm not sure anyone here is capable of providing a magic fix.

You've assumed the role of "early adopter"--brand new processor, brand new motherboard-- and early adopters sometimes have to take their lumps: half-baked drivers, lousy yields, poor designs corrected in a later revisions, etc.

If I were you, I'd at least try the PowerDesk 5.30 drivers. No one can give you any guarantees, but it's a first step in the sometimes long process of elimination associated with bug hunts. If you don't like ver. 5.30, return to what you are using.

Possibly this is something correctable in a BIOS revision or driver update, but you should consider that it may be a hardware issue. If it is, I can guarantee you this: it won't go away unless you track it down and replace the offending part. *If* you have a substandard DIMM, it may be your one and only DIMM, but you'll have to replace it. The same goes with your power supply or any other key component that is destabilizing your system.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[This message has been edited by paulcs (edited 20 January 2000).]

[gbm]

1. Double check if your card is seated properly in its slot.
2. Remove all traces of previous drivers, also therse from other cards.
3. Try to use another power supply.

[Meek]

Well, I do not have the problems you have, but a couple of poinits about an Athlon/G400 combo are good to know. First of all, both require much power. If your PowerSupply is not up to the task, strange things happen when the voltage levels fluctuate during boot, and ruing initialisation of hardware. A 300 W power supply should be enough. You could try to remove other hardware, extra hard disks, CD drives, sound cards, etc (temporarily) to see if this is the problem. (Of course you will also eliminate all the possible hardware conflicts as well).

Also, Athlons require good quality PC-100 DIMMs. My favorite on-line store here in Finland recommends only PC133 (7 ns) memory modules, to be on the safe side.

M.

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Athlon500/MSI6167/128M/10GIBM/6GSamsung/1GSCSI IBM/AHA2940/CL2xDVD/FastMM2+MJPEG/HPPSScanner/HPPSPrinter/G400DH32M/ZIP100SCSI/Mitsumi2xCD-R/Samsung17GL/MX300/AKA Electric Classic

[Temp]

paulcs,

I share your point of view. Actually, I am far more open that my previous post made it looked like, and I would not be surprised if it actually was a hardware issue. BUT:

- I tried two different PSUs. The one I used initially has been used successfully by a lot of people I know, and the second one is AMD approved, all this for a measly Athlon 500. It did not solve this problem.

- I tried two different SDRAM DIMMs, as well as using different DIMM slots on the MB.

- I dissasembled and reassembled the system completely twice, to be sure it had nothing to do with incorrectly connected devices.

All this did not change a thing. I add that the system is stable, both in normal use and games, and the warm reboots just go fine. Only during a cold boot does the system behave as described by the initial poster (which means, the system POSTs normally, starts booting, and freezes with a plaid screen during the Win 98 boot process) and requires a reinstallation of the drivers.

This problem, in the context of the G400/K7M combo, has actually been described numerous times on this board, and wondering if there is a fix is a healthy thing to do, IMHO. If the only way to get the card working are expensive and overspecified power supply and DIMMs, I will be better off selling the G400 and buying a video bord that works with AMD and ASUS approved hardware, which is what I have.

gbm,

Thanks, I tried all that already.

Meek,

Thanks, I already tried all what you suggested (except putting in a PC133 SDRAM DIMM, as they are not available locally).

[Temp]

Goc,

Thank you for wording your opinion. Your advice, which is to sell my motherboard, as been noted. If you think about it, you will propably understand that selling my G400 would be easier, but I am not over in my search for a fix at this point.

To me, the question of who is to blame is purely rethorical. There is an issue between the K7m and the G400, and I am not attached in a personal way to either ASUS or Matrox (or AMD or Microsoft, for that matter). If anybody (including myself, since I am working on fixing it) comes with a solution to the issue, I will happily report it in this BBS for the benefit of people suffering from similar problems. Look at the initial post in the thread and see that I am far from being the only one.

"There is always a solution but some people simply don't have patience so they rant&rave around, pissing me off"

There is always a solution? Excellent! that is what I am looking for. If you have any suggestion, please feel free to word it, instead of complaining that I report a problem. :-)

[EmpirE]

Sorry to burst all your bubbles....

BUT PLAID LOCK UP IS NOT A HARDWARE FAULT ALONE

i have been tracking this problem on my system for weeks...and guess what...

It only happens on Win98 (orig and SE)...

Win95 OSR2 and NT4 (sp3 4 5 or 6) works just great with not a single episode of plaid lock up.....

i would have to say my money is on Win98/Matrox driver combination rather than the M/B or Athlon Combo...

i currently run win95OSR2 and NT4 dual boot using the Asus and athlon 550 at 600 with no probs....but once i boot up to 98...bang it goes again....

make of it what u will....

[Goc]

Reading this thread made me feel pretty pissed off!

Temp... I wonder why is it that you blame your videoboard for system not being stable?

If I recall correctly, Matrox G400 was made before Athlon, and waaay before ASUS K7M, so if there is an incompatibility issue somewhere amidst those components, Matrox surely ain't the one to blame.
I believe the blame is ASUS' completely. First they announce they are making an Athlon board, the Intel puts his a$$ on their necks, and suddenly - Athlon board is no more, nor was it planned in the first place. Eventually, the board comes out but it's all a hush, hush kind of thing, so ASUS doesn't want to advertise, and is scared sh*tless.
Then they avoid putting BIOS revisions on their ftp servers, or even working on them.
Guys, I really used to love ASUS but after this flop they showed what kind of pricks they are!
On the other hand Matrox launched the G400 board, and since then sweeped the graphics market, winning most of the awards. BIOS updates are coming out pretty fast after a problem is detected, and drivers are almost in full gear, and constantly being revised for squeezeing that extra amount of speed out of the hardware.

NOW TELL ME!
WHO HAS A BETTER CHANCE TO SCREW UP?!?!?

Go sell the mobo, not your vid-card. I know you spent a lot of money for your machine, and expect it to work "as advertised", but why, WHY do you whine about Matrox being the badguy in this, now almost, funny story.

I apologize to all the happy K7M owners, it is the fastest Athlon board around but it has lots of kid deseases. There is always a solution but some people simply don't have patience so they rant&rave around, pissing me off