What is the deal with the crummy new drivers?????

[EchoWars]

I have four systems I administer...two with G200's and two with G400's. Three of them are running on the VIA Apollo Pro 133a chipset, and one on the VIA MVP3 (SS7). The SS7 with a G200 setup is stuck at PwrDsk Rev 5.30 (5.41 and newer either BSOD's or eats all the CPU time and runs like Win98 on a 486 25Mhz system), and the one G200 (mine...) running on the 133a setup is using a 'driver cocktail' of the 5.41 drivers and the PwrDsk from 5.30. The newest full release drivers BSOD on ANY 3d app with the G200, and simply lock up the G400 machines on ANY 3d app.

Hate to rant here, but the VIA 133a is going to be THE chipset for the next six months. Testing and tweaking the drivers on the VIA chipsets should be a TOP priority.

Matrox...friggin' get it together! I expect more from a company with your reputation.

Looking for a fix here...or maybe a NV15 if necessary...

Signed..Loyal Matrox fan, for now...

[Rags]

Hi Echo,

I am really glad I am not in your position, because if I ever worked for a company that had via chipsets in all of their machines, I would run like the wind out the door.

That said, you should really be posting this to a VIA forum, because this is the root of your problems. If VIA is going to be "The Chipset" of the next 6 months, which it isn't, then VIA had better get THEIR asses in gear and actually produce a chipset that is worth a shit, and while they are at it, they could also write some decent drivers for their crappy chipsets. This way Video card mfrs, and NIC card mfrs didn't have to include special code into their drivers to bypass certain standard calls and procedures for some chipset company that can't get their act together. So go and tell it to VIA, they are the ones who need to get geared up.

BTW what is it that your systems are needed for that need 5.41 and above right now?

Rags

[Electric Amish]

DAMMMIT!!!

Don't tell me this!! I'm getting ready to buy an Athlon system....

[jackzod]

Do you really think NV15 won't have any issue with VIA chipset...
I had two Mobo based on Via in the past, including one SS7, always trouble, crash, BSOD, incompatibility, tweaking, patch and on and on...Doesn't seem they have improved a lot...
BTW anybody considering a VIA 133a should wait a few revision for the problems to be ironed a bit.

[Marz]

EchoWars, the problems you are having with the SS7 mobo's are pretty much well known here, there are plenty of threads with info regarding them, try using the search. With regard to the 133a mobo's (tell us what brand, etc, etc) I'm using a ASUS P3V4X that initially had problems with the current PD release and like you I blamed the new PD drivers for screwing my system. But, after some poking around, I found that if I ran my AGP at 1X I had a perfectly stable system. At 2X the system was stable, but gameplay was laggy/jerky. And at 4X, the system is stable, but gameplay has all these flickering objects and eventually it locks up.

I have to agree that the VIA 133a chipset, for the moment is not as stable as the BX chipset but then, the BX chipset has been around for quite a while and has been very refined. And I'd have to agree with Rags about using the VIA chipset if your environment required 100% uptime, the chipset is just not mature enough, but give it time.

A couple of suggestions:
1) Stay with the 4.17 4in1 drivers.
2) Check that AGP is running at 1X for maximum stability.

HTH

Marz.

[Randy Simons]

*sigh* I use a MVP3 chipset for 1.5 years know, and I have a stable, good working and reliable system. (both win9x as win2k) Don't give me the "VIA is shit" thing. Sure, there ARE bad mainboards with VIA sets on them, but there ARE bad mainboards with Intel sets on them as well.
The only problem I have is in fact with matrox: they just can't come up with acceptable OpenGL drivers. In the 1.5 years I have this g200 I *NEVER* had good, fast and reliable OpenGL drivers.
Also, AGP 2X is not working. Dunno why, but I don't care since the performance increase is nihil.

[LAMFDTK]

I have always been fond of the word "Crummy"

[EchoWars]

Glad you like the word...never use it myself..just kinda popped up.

The SS7 system is an Epox MVP3G-M, probably the best (or close to) SS7 MB out there. The 133a systems are all on Tyan Trinity s1854 MB's, also a pretty decent board.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that 'VIA is crap' bullshit either. If PwrDsk 5.30 or 5.41 runs just fine, is it unreasonable to expect that newer drivers might work AT LEAST as well?? (unless the manufacturer specifies so...) Stability has nothing to do with it...I could give a shit about 1x, 2x, whatever. All machines have been 'trial forced' to 1x to see if this makes any difference. And it ain't just a VIA issue either, as I could not run PwrDsk 5.41 or newer on my Tyan s1846 BX board with a G200.

Lastly, Rags, if you are going to run a 133Mhz FSB, what are you going to use? A i820 with a MTH ain't gonna cut it, and Rambus...well, we ain't gonna go there. So, what is this 'mystery chipset' you know about that runs a 133Mhz FSB, AGP 4x, 1/2 AGP divider, and UDMA/66? Either vid card companies get their drivers compatable with the 133a chipset, or get left in the dust till at least late summer.

[This message has been edited by EchoWars (edited 01 March 2000).]

[Rags]

Hi Echo,

Lastly, Rags, if you are going to run a 133Mhz FSB, what are you going to use? A i820 with a MTH ain't gonna cut it, and Rambus...well, we ain't gonna go there.

Well, from my experience, I would rather go with a BX chipset at 133 FSB, or even the i820 with MTH. The MTH boards are about on a par performance wise with the VIA chipset you are using memory wise. And I believe that I would much rather go with Intel stability. AGP 4X is nothing but marketing hype, as is ATA66. If you wanna see what people are buying that supports the 133 FSB, take a look at Gateway, Dell, and Micron, they are currently using i810e's and i820's with MTH's. No via chipsets there, I wonder why. Surely it can't be because they don't want to spend more time on support for these beasts than what they made off of selling it, could they? Look, I am really hoping that VIA can pull their heads out, because that can only mean good things to us. But the problem I have with them is their crappy chipsets and even worse drivers. I haven't seen a single VIA solution out there that makes me even think of getting rid of my trusty BX board. Their 133/133a boards are less stable, slower, less compatible, and require much more butt loving to keep care of.

And I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that 'VIA is crap' bullshit either.

Unfortunately for you, you have already bought bullshit, and hopefully with some time, VIA will get their own drivers ironed out. The list of problems is far too long to list. There is a known compatibility problem between VIA chipsets (ALI are even worse), and video cards, NIC's, DVD drives, some HD's, SCSI cards, etc., etc. My cousin works for compaq, and they are a huge supplier of K6 and Athlon machines, and they are in bed with VIA, and he tells me that when they go through some of the HW verification for these systems, he wonders if there will ever be light at the end of the tunnel. Some of the problems are due to the individual motherboard mfr., but there is only so much a mfr can do to polish a turd. Either you want performance, or you want stability. There doesn't seem to be any merging of the two here.

If PwrDsk 5.30 or 5.41 runs just fine, is it unreasonable to expect that newer drivers might work AT LEAST as well?? (unless the manufacturer specifies so...)

No, it's not unreasonable to expect. Now, we always see the same thing with non-intel chipsets year after year. Anytime a driver that offers more performance is released, the VIA/Ali/SIS chipsets always suffer. Is it because the people who write these drivers don't give a shit about these mfrs? No, they have access to the specs, they know the routines. What happens is that anytime there is any kind of stressing on the AGP or PCI bus on these boards, they just freak out. I don't think that it is too much to ask for all drivers to work with your stuff, it's just who do you go running to when it doesn't. Who is to blame? Is anyone to blame? I would tend to believe that it is VIA to blame for poor drivers, for poor reference specs on their motherboards. Take a scope sometime and actually measure the busnoise made on a SS7 board, whether it's an Epox or an FIC (I have had both, and done it). Then take that same scope and measure the bus noise on a TX or BX board. You won't believe your eyes. 133A chipset boards are a bit better, but seing as how they share the same identical PCB most of the time with BX boards of the same mfr., one would think the noise would be the same, but it is not. I am sorry, but if you want compatibility, stability, and performance, then at this time there is only one place to look. And it isn't VIA. Hopefully that will change, but I have been waiting for three years, and so far VIA has let me down.

Rags




[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 01 March 2000).]

[Mark F]

Ummm...Rags...Micron uses the Tyan boards with the VIA 133a chipset.
But I won't tell.

Mark F.

------------------
OH NO, my retractable cup holder swallowed a DVD...
and burped out a movie

[Rags]

Hi Mark

I stand corrected.

Rags

[franksch3]

Hi,

I have to agree with Echo Wars. I have a Athlon 500 with a Asus K7M. Although my platform is less stable than my BX with PII 450 (probably need a 300W power supply), the newest drivers made it even more unstable in games.

Mouse and keybord stop responding (mostly Unreal Tournament). After a few seconds my sounds get repeating itselfs (meaning it crashed bigtime ;-) ). And the only option left is to reset... again.

These crashes have happened the last week with these new Win 9x drivers more often than I had crashes for the past two months I have my Athlon. I DO think it is a Matrox issue somehow.

Frank

[ParaKnowYa]

Asus K7M + AMD K7 700MHz is a perfect combo, I've not had any problems related to this combo with my G400 Max. Beware that almost all problems you get with this combo are driver related (at least for me!

Via KX133 will be out on many mobos soon boosting the K7 a lot more because this is actually the fastest chipset for K7 on pair or faster than others (for other CPUs) if the manufacturer of the board did work things out right! AFAIK the Epox KX133 board looks VERY good! Might be worth a look!

[waxling]

I've just taken delivery of 4 new athlon 600/msi K7pro machines.(with g400's of course)

Using the newest drivers, most games work, but using the turbogl, wow, what a difference. Increased textures, increased speed. And not a single BSOD - yet. So there is hope for non intel systems.

[PaulS]

I have to agree with Rags. I have not seen any VIA chipsets that deserve to be called stable. That's not to say that the motherboards using them are poorly designed, but what can anyone do if the chipset or the OS support is flaky? Personally, I don't see why Matrox, or any other video card manufacturer, should have to code around the peculiarities of a particular chipset, that is why we have operating systems.

When developing Windows 2000, MS gave up trying to get these chipsets working, they have stated that the stability issues can only be resolved by the manufacturer.

Paul