AGP x4, Matrox G400MAX on Asus p3v4x

[dwright]

Paul, could you tell us your memory performance, I would like to compare with what I am getting now (with 256mb Apacer pc133 @cas2).
I find the P3V4X is very stable with the G400max and a PIII600 @800. I liked it enough to buy a second which is also stable with a PIII450 and Diamond TNT2 Ultra jumpered for agp4x.
The only time I got it to crash to desktop was when I used generic pc100 ram at 133. Then I tried the same ram in one of the P3B-F boards @133 and the same thing happened so I sold the ram (as pc100) and got the Apacer 133 product and eliminated the problem.

[paulcs]

Cancer, when you ID'd your BIOS as 1.3, I misread it as your motherboard revision. The revision number of your board is on the board itself. Under the CPU slot, towards the center of the board, you'll see "Asus P3V4X" or "P3V4X" in fairly large letters. Right below that, in small print, is the board's revision number. It's most likely 1.02.

Dwright, I left my numbers in my bag across town. I'm heading over there soon, and I'll post my Sandra 2000 numbers when I get back.

I like the board as well, but it's very particular about what it will play nice with. It seems to like new, expensive, high grade hardware. PC100 RAM, even really good PC100 RAM, doesn't seem to be quite good enough. It seems to like PC133 RAM, and true CAS2 PC133 RAM at that, or it's going to put up some really lousy numbers. UDMA 33 devices on the first IDE channel appear to be a prescription for trouble.

I really think this is a board for overclockers and performance nuts (and I'm using "performance nut" in the nicest possible way). It can be very fast and very stable, but it may require some work to get to that point.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[dwright]

Hi Paul, thanks
My memory tests pIII@800 win2000 sandra2000 354/419 with asus probe running (335/403 without probe)
win98se sandra99pr 334/391 with asus probe running (314/366 without probe)

Strange they are higher when I run asus probe to measure cpu temp.

[Hong Kong]

You can download the Powerstrip or Pcilist and check whether it is in 4x mode. Make sure your motherboard support 4x mode. If it doesn't at 4x, you just simply reinstall the the lastest driver again. * remember to tick the overwrite previous setting while installing
hope you enjoy it!!!

[paulcs]

I will not use the Asus Probe. It seems to be (mis)reporting the CPU temperature in a way designed to give one a heart attack. Everyone who has purchased this board has noted CPU temperature increases of 20 degrees Celsius from their old boards with the CPU clocked at the same speed.

Since I get different scores everytime I run Sandra's Memory Benchmark, I'll give the first and second runs for each scenario. I tested with both the 4.17 drivers alonge and a combination of the 4.17 AGP and the 4.20 busmastering drivers as well as the old and new RAM. I'll start off with my BX number first, just as a point of reference. Note that there was a BIOS change in there as well.

AOpen AX6BC Pro II, PIII 600E @ 800 MHz, Siemens CAS 2 PC100 RAM (2-2-2) @ 133 MHz

First Run: 344 CPU/380 FPU
Second Run: 356 CPU/403 FPU

Asus P3V4X, 4.17 AGP and Busmastering, PIII 600E @ 800 MHz, Siemens CAS 2 PC100 RAM @ 100 MHz (2-2-2)

First Run: 271 CPU/309 FPU
Second Run: 276 CPU/322 FPU

Asus P3V4X, 4.17 AGP and 4.20 Busmastering, PIII 600E @ 800 MHz, Siemens CAS 2 PC100 RAM @ 100 MHz (2-2-2)

The Only Run: 296 CPU/345 FPU

Asus P3V4X, 4.17 AGP and 4.20 Busmastering, PIII 600E @ 800 MHz, Crucial CL2 PC133 RAM @ 133 MHz (2-2-2)

First Run: 373 CPU/443 FPU
Second Run: 378 CPU/460 FPU

Now, either Sandra is misreporting the new numbers, or the combination of the 4.17 AGP and 4.20 busmastering drivers gave me a nice improvement, and the RAM upgrade did even better.

The thing is, I've seen decent improvements in my UTBench, Quake2 Crusher, and 3DMark 2000 numbers as well. Quake3 numbers have remained a constant during the last two senarios.

I'll mess a bit more with Sandra later this evening.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Rags]

Hi cancer,

First of all, the BH6 r1.01 is the one I had and the bios update supported the proper voltage and all that, ABit just wasn't going to come out and say "yeah, it works" because the BH6 doesn't allow for a lot of current. As far as going for a board for AGP 4X, that is all fine and good, as long as you will actually use AGP 4X and Need 4X. So far there is no real need for 4X, and the VIA chipset does not have enough memory bandwidth to fully feed AGP 4X, so you are actually getting somewhere around AGP 2X or a little higher anyhow. My thinking is that I would have stuck the coppermine in the BH6, overclocked it to the max of 133 FSB, and run it until some true 4X boards came out that were reasonable in cost and reasonable as far as memory cost is concerned. Right now, there are none...at least you got a cheaper board and aren't out too much dosh.

What I have done recently is got another coppermine, a BE6 (which I sold) then a BF6 (which cost me 109 dollars delivered), and can run my coppermine up to 160 FSB (with some borrowed memory) with my G400 running happily along at AGP 1X. I can see no need for me to go with a via chipset at this time. Right now, I have my FSB set to 140 with my PC100 memory and all seems well right now, my memory performance is outstanding, and AGP transfers are not slow by any measure. And I don't have to worry about installing AGP patch for this out of this driver set, and the rest of the chipset drivers out of this driver set to get things going. I plug the devices in, install the drivers (if there are any), and use my machine. This has to be best overclocking board in the market right now, I can choose my FSB speeds in 1mhz increments from 83 to 200Mhz, I have all kinds of bios tweaks, voltage settings for the CPU, voltage settings for the IO, this is great. I guess if I were running a lesser video card, I would be SOL as far as overclocking goes, but I don't so I am not.

Rags

[Rags]

Hi Paul,

Here is what I get with my BF6 and 550E running at 133FSB, 733Mhz memory set at 3-3-3:
375CPU/455FPU

Rags

[dwright]

Hi Paul,
I don't think the 4.20 4in1 drivers install the newer busmaster drivers on my win98se system. It looks like they just enable the dma check box. Is there a way to get them installed? Am I installing the wrong thing? I think the via site said to get busmaster drivers from your mobo maker's site. I can't recheck via - their site is hard to get to (or its down alot).
I had a chance to interupt my son's UT game to run sandra2000 on the P3B-F with a PIII500 @667 and got 432cpu/493fpu (Apacer @ cas 2-2-2). It seems that BX @133 does well.
Thanks

[paulcs]

Boy, you guys must be living right. Those are good scores.

I have never been clear on what exactly gets installed and what doesn't when you install the 4in1 drivers. The install permits you to enable UDMA 66, so something is happening. Windows identifies the driver, I believe, as VMM32.vxd.

VIA's site is vague on the subject. They claim it's included in the 4in1 set:

VIA 4-in-1 Driver

"The 4-in-1 driver is suitable for all VIA chipsets using Windows® 95, Windows® 98, Windows® NT. This driver will install the:

IDE Busmaster
VIA AGP Driver
IRQ Routing Driver
VIA ACPI Registry

"If you are using Windows® 98 SE, you do not need to install the 4-in-1 driver as the IRQ Routing Driver and the ACPI Registry are already incorporated into the operating system. Users with Windows® 98 SE may update the IDE Busmaster and AGP drivers by installing them individually."

Later on, when they list and provide links to the individual drivers, they say the following:

"IDE Busmaster Driver

This driver resolves IDE device incompatabilities, but does not enhance performance. If you need this driver, please contact your motherboard or system manufacturer."

The only separate busmastering driver I've seen on Asus's site is for DOS. Just for fun, I installed it. I was reinstalling Windows an hour later. I don't recommend it at all. You're given a warning that it might mess up performance, and it delivers on that warning.

I just selected the busmastering (ATAPI in this case; they seem to change the name from version to version) using the setup routine.

It's a hard call, and attempting to get answers from VIA's site leaves me more confused than I was before visiting it. Have you noticed any difference since installing it, bad or good?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[EchoWars]

While I am using a VIA chipset now...they have to get their act together to play with the big boys. In a lot of ways, VIA is like the worlds largest garage company. They need to supply clear and conscise information to gain further acceptance.

BTW---Tyan s1854 Trinity 400 w/VIA Apollo Pro 133A chipset and Mushkin PC133 2-2-2 memory...PIII 550e @ 733

Si-Soft Sandra Memory test:

CPU- 362Mb/s
FPU- 432Mb/s

I fail to see a problem with 'poor memory transfers'.
heh...

[paulcs]

Dwright, I'd leave well enough alone at this point. I've been searching around, and most users appear to be either using the full 4.17 set or just the AGP driver. Possibly, the 4.20 is addressing an issue specific to my system.

I am, as always, suspicious of my soundcard.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[paulcs]

EchoWars, I notice you're using name brand CAS2 PC133 RAM. I suspect it's the be all, end all, and cure all for this chipset. I suspect the asynchronous memory bus speed support, while a useful feature in the short term, is not a good long term solution. The chipset likes fast RAM and appears to underachieve without it.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[cancer]

I seemed to have triggered quite a discussion on this topic thought i addmit i'm becoming a bit lost. fisrt i hear i should clean out my system and reinstall appropriate drivers and everything should be cool on my asus p3v4x mb & g400max. next i hear i should dump the asus mb in favour of my old abit bh6 & flash the bios with the new revision to support cumines which i thought wasn't possible on my board due to it being an earlier revision (1.01).
i guess all i want to know is whats the best config to use for best performance & stabliity.
(note: you were right paulcs i just checked the revision on my asus mb near slot 1, it is indeed a 1.02, i was looking at the sticker on the side of the isa slot which read 1.01. i guess this reflected the bios that shipped with the board.)
overall i would like to use my asus board if at all possible because it cost me $200 AU$ & its got some nice features. also it has agp x4 and ata66 ultra on board. if i went back to my bh6 i'd have to plug my abit ata66 pci adaptor back in so i could use my seagate barracuda 66 drive & settle for agpx2.
i'm sorry this has gone on for a while and you must be getting a bit sick of it by now. you guys have provided by far the best info concerning my rig. (thank god matrox users look after each other otherwise we'll all be in deep S*#@) all i want is a wicked setup that i don't have to fiddle with much after i get settled(until the next upgrade of course!)
again thanks for everyones time.
cheers.

[paulcs]

If reinstalling Windows isn't too big of a pain, I'd do it. It can't hurt.

Before you do that, try uninstalling the PD 5.52 drivers and installing 5.41. Make sure your video board is entirely in the AGP slot and properly aligned. (This is a bit tricky and very important.) Disable all video caching and shadowing in your motherboard's BIOS. While you're in there, open your AGP aperture to 256.

As you probably know, newer videocards do not like to share IRQ's. Make sure the G400 is only sharing with IRQ Holder for PCI Steering. Also, the G400 should be on IRQ 9, 10, or 11. If your soundcard is in the PCI slot next to the AGP slot, get it out of there and put it somewhere else.

Tell us what happens.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[cancer]

paulcs
reinstalling win98se isn't a hassle, usually i go the whole hog and start from stratch if thing are becoming unmanageable. currently my G400max is in irq 11 & sharing IRQ Holder for PCI Steering. with the sound card i have i might have an issue, its an old isa card and as you know there is only one isa slot on the asus boards (p3v4x).

------------------
Asus P3V4X bios 1.03, P!!! FC-PGA 550e @733, Matrox G400MAX bios 1.4 PDesk 5.52.015, Seagate 28.5G Ultra ATA66 7200rpm HD, Pioneer 103s DVD 6X/32X drive, SB AWE64 Gold ISA sound card, SMC pci ethernet adaptor, Castlewood Orb 2.2G media drive, Nortel 100 cable modem, Mitsubishi 1995 19in monitor, MS natural keyboard, MS Intellimouse Explorer,
Win98SE 4.10.2222A, DX7a.