Observation on GeForce Cards

[cputnam]

Had some time to blow so I thought I'd give a different card a try.

I knew I was going to have to switch back to Win98SE over Win2000 Pro as there are several multimedia applic's that won't run under Win2000 (namely Sybex E-Trainers for A+ and Network+ certification).

Gave an Elsa Erazor a shot. The upside is that it installed fine, uses my monitors INF files to set the refresh rate (a gripe of mine to Matrox).

On the downside, the colors and such seemed slightly saturated to where text would "bleed" into the background areas, creating a "fuzzy" effect.

Matrox may have it's quirks, but the G400 definitely provides the BEST overall image output. It may not be the fastest card for games, but when you have work to do, can't beat it.

[paulcs]

The blues are bluer. The reds are redder. The browns (in Quake3) are browner.

I'm in the process of benchmarking three different nVidia boards across four different platforms using a variety of different tests. There is a difference. I just stuck my G200 back in my W2K system and the familiar blue desktop looked prettier!

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Rohde]

And your BSOD get's bluer (not prettier)

[APV]

Sold my SH G400 recently for a Geforce SDR card, to be honest the performance is slightly faster than the G400 but the 2D image is not as good as the G400. most of all, this geforce has some kind of conflict with my promise fasttrack 66, finally gave it up for a G400 Max and is now happy. Bottom line, if you have a G400 forget about the geforce SDR, performance gain doesn't worth it.

[paulcs]

If you think for a minute that there are fewer problems with the GeForce, well, I think you're just plain wrong. The GeForce and GeForce2 are, if anything, fussier than the G400 in Windows 98 and on an Intel platform. And there are no shortage of Athlon problems as well.

On general videoboard forums, where 3dfx and nVidia fanboys take out their sexual and self-esteem problems on each other, the GeForce can do no wrong amongst the nVidiots. On nVidia forums, the "Whining Chorus" is just as loud, if not louder.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[dwright]

I am giving Elsa Gladiac a try (in the same machine my G400max was in). The card is very fast, I just tested @6300+ in 3dmark2000 about double my G400max score. QIII demo rates are almost double as well. The image has the "fuzzy" look (like the Geforce1), on a Viewsonic PT795 1280*1024. There were no install problems in win98se or win2000 (both new installs). I had heard that the image quality was improved with Geforce2 but I don't see it. I wonder if this is a problem with this individual card or if this a good as it gets?
G400max is tops with it's quality image.

[paulcs]

Elsa GeForce boards have a good reputation as far as image quality goes. Unfortunately, in order to be first at the gate, Elsa bought the first run of VisionTek boards, added their BIOS, and slapped on an Elsa label. From what I understand, they forgot or didn't see fit to remove the VisionTek label from a number of the boards.

I also understand they have adopted a very liberal return policy. If you're not happy with the board, complain and use the word "remarked" a lot.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[atysoe]

I too just bought a gladiac, and am very pleased with it. 2D is only slightly off of my g400 max, but barely enough to notice. My old work computer was a P3 500 g400 oem, and my new machine a P3 650, the speed difference is phenomenal, but then my P2 400 with G400 max was as fast as the P3 500 so I figure thats no surprise.

Being a 3D game artist, I am VERY impressed with the new card I bought for work. Not only is it really fast, at least 2x the speed of the old work machine, but has really stable drivers in 3D applications.

My biggest gripe with matrox has always been their drivers, and compatibility over proffesional 3D apps.

Lw 5.6 has been a bit buggy with textures and rendered viewports not displaying correctly on the G400. Gladiac has no problems at all.

3DS MAX is very good, seems like 2 to 3x faster on the gladiac not that I have benchmarked, but the number of polys I can move in viewports is huge in comparison.

As I use both the above progs but prefer MAX only our game engine only supports LW scenes, I also have to use Uview to get .UV mapped textures across to LW and the game engine. Uview has always hated matrox GL drivers and refused to display textures, and sometimes failed completely.

I still like the G400, and hope that maybe the G800 will be a good contender in the next generation of 3D cards, If so I will get one, however for what I do I am starting to think the Gforce is going to be a better choice.

I only bought the card because the crappy TNT2 that came with the computer failed to run in win2k, and going to frys got a gladiac for $179 as they had mixed priceing on the elsa erazor but had to honour the marked price on the gladiac. Wish I had bought 2 of em now. I couldn't believe my luck, and as you can imagine, and a happy chappy.

[AJ]

atysoe - good comments.

The g800 will need to be pretty good to overcome the GF2 GTS (now that the 2D is decent). Especially if the GF2s get 200Mhz DDR in a couple months (as per rumors). This could be perfect for me, since I don't plan to buy a new card for ~6 months. By then the NV20 will be out and the GF2 should be discounted.

I've noticed alot of problems with my G400 in OpenGL games. So basically the G800 needs to Match the GF2 in performance and have much better OGL drivers that they presently do (and be close in price when I buy). If Matrox wants to aim it efforts primarily at D3D and not produce good OGL drivers (in terms of fps and visual quality), I'll wind up having to move on.

Right now it looks like the GF2 has about 3x the frame rates of the G400 in OGL. The G800 is supposed the have twice the performance of the g450, so if the g450 is about 50% faster than the g400, the 800 could hit the mark.

One thing is for sure, Nvidia is stomping hard on the competition and they're not letting up.

If someone had suggested to me six months ago that I look at something other than Matrox, I would have laughed at them. Things change real fast in this biz.

-AJ

[paulcs]

I think the GeForce2 is a sensible choice for online Quake3 players, particularly if they want to make the change from 800x600 to 1024x768 without sacrificing a lot of speed. (At this point, the GeForce2 is not really faster than the GeForce DDR at lower resolutions.) It makes a big difference with SOF as well, as it appears to be optimized for the GeForce2 and its T&L implementation.

I don't this is true for online adventure games and sims, however. The nVidia forums are filled with complaints about Direct3D driver issues and framerates just aren't as important as they are with shooters.

UT is a toss-up. I guess if UT is the be all and end all of your gaming experience, a 3dfx board and a fast CPU is the way to go. My Max handles UT pretty well. I haven't tried the new update, but I've been satisfied with its performance. And I just couldn't imagine switching to an nVidia board if the PC I was using was not primarily a gaming system or used for a lot of OpenGL apps.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[dwright]

Just a quick update - I returned the Elsa and exchanged it for a ProphetII because I felt the image was fuzzy. The ProphetII construction is good but the image is about the same - still fuzzy compared to the G400max @1280*1024 85hz in 2d.

[atysoe]

On the Viewsonic monitor I use the difference at 1280x1024 is negligible. On first instalation you notice the matrox card is very slightly ahead in image clarity, but not enough to be an issue.

For instance, returning home to my G400MAX I honestly cant tell the difference at all.I guess if you had both running in the same room simultaniously you might notice, but I really don't think its an issue unless you are going to be anal about it

[dwright]

Yes - after some tweaking and burn-in time on the card the ProphetII is much better than the Elsa Gladiac. I am satisfied at 1280*1024 85hz. The G400max will replace the ATI Magnum in my wife's machine which has a good PT775. Thanks for the information. I am realy glad I returned the Elsa.

[mj12]

My friend bought a GeForce2 yesterday so I went over to his house to check er out and all I can say is wow. I have no idea what everyone is bitching about the 2d for. It was very good. And as for 3d....I will soon have a g400max for sale if anyone wants it. I couldn't believe it when I played both UT and Q3 at 1600x1200 32bit high textures all no problem at all. It was pretty damn impressive. Too bad matrox has decided to turn their focus towards the business users.

[DuRaNgO[MU]]

Impressive? don't you mean it was pretty damn expensive?