G400Max & Asus K7V and I'm still crashing.

[Rob M.]

I posted about this a loong time ago, and I never got a satisfactory solution. I crash frequently and suspect the g400, but there is one crash I recognize in particular that only happens with the g400. This happens mostly in 3d, but sometimes happens in the desktop, right after I boot.

What happens is I suddenly get pixel wide, multicoloured vertical stripes. It looks like my screen is doing it's own version of 'The Matrix', the characters are single pixels, and are random colours instead of green. I can move my mouse curser (which is a square black box at this point) but nothing else works, and I have to press the reset or power buttons.

I've worked as a technician at a local computer store, and I used the availability of parts to my advantage. Since I picked up my g400 when it first came out last summer, I've tried:

4 G400Max cards (the agp2x rated versions w/metal and plastic bladed fans)
At least 3 power supplies including my current 300w
2 cases, and I've tried it out of the case
PIII, Celeron, and now Athlon CPUs
Motherboards: Abit BH6, BX6R2, BF6, and of course my Asus K7V
Fresh installs of win98 (starting with format c
Fresh installs of Windows 2000 (again, formatting)
Different types of: memory, HDs, and external peripherals.
Removing all cards and running with only the G400, MB, RAM, and HD on a fresh install of win98.

As for tweaks, I've tested:
agp aperature at 32, 64, 128 and 256
every driver ever released on the matrox website
IRQs 9, 10 and 11 (with the card not sharing)
The original and updated G400 bios

The only thing I've found that makes a difference is the AGP 1X patch. At 1X I was stable about 98% of the time, and only with the latest drivers that work with q3radiant (quake3 level editor) have I seen the crash at 1x mode (intermittantly in q3radiant)

I havn't tried disabling sidebanding, but it isn't worth doing considering the performance hit.

I really find it hard to believe Matrox hasn't experienced this problem. This is not just my system, I have seen another G400max system doing the exact same crash. Back when the G400 was first released there were quite a few other people on this BBS reporting this problem, mostly Abit users. Until yesterday, I had decided it was my abit+g400 combination as I hadn't tried/seen a g400 on another brand, but after seeing this happen on what is supposed to be "the most stable athlon board yet" I am about ready to throw in the towel. I would be very happy with this G400 if I could get it stable, but I think I'll probably wind up just getting the new nvidia card this summer...

I would really appreciate any ideas as I really don't want to be wasting probably $400+ bucks.

Thanks,

Rob

[chicane]

Hi

I running the K7V and Matrox G400 v stable.

Mayb u can try my config.

K7V using BIOS 1004b3
Win98 SE
DirectX7.0a
G400 using PD 5.41
VIA 4-1 4.20 driver. (VGART update as Turbo mode)Bus Mastering use Win98 default.

The K7V is v simple to setup. So i assumed u hv all the BIOS setting set correctly.

Try it....i hope u can get thru it.

[glarec]

i haven't try the k7v yet(i was planning to buy it, but i am still contemplating between that and p3 *groan*), but from pass experience with the card, i had problem when i had the metal fans based g400max with the abit bp6. the problem is exactly as you described it. it has problem with the bus masteering timing and it would crashed even in 2d. i had it changed to the plastic fans one, make sure the sitting is correct (i opted not to screw the board just to make sure it is sitted correctly. didn't bother to bend the clip to make it fit), and no irq conflict. and wah-la. it works great from then on.. only problem i have is the smp with w2k. the newest driver works great on smp(no more crashes), but it has problem with the tv-out.

oh, one last suggestion. try install w2k with just the necessary peripherals(no soundcard) and see if it gives you the bsod. forgot what ide controller k7v uses, but if it's the ata-66, try to put the hd in the ata-33 controller and try to install directly from a bootable cd-rom drive. if you are using scsi and no ide. disable the ide controllers in the bios.

make sure ALL caches in the bios are disable (no use). and make sure you assign irq in VGA.

i think that's all i can think of right now. good luck



------------------
Glarec
------
bp6-(2)433(oc488) celerons, g400max, ibm ultra scsi 9.1g, sb-live value, hitachi ss-753 19", plextor 32x, etc, etc, etc...

[Rob M.]

chicane: I'm using the same stuff you listed there, although I have updated to the 1004.04a (beta) bios.

Taz: I'll try bus mastering, but isn't there a big performance hit doing that?

glarec: tried the seating, I'm sure it's in there proper. I havn't tried a clean win2k install without cards, is there a reason why you're suggesting this? I have done a clean win98 with no cards other than g400, and I still got the crash.
The k7v uses the via 686a southbridge which has 2 udma66 channels (no ata-33). I havn't had any bsod's in win2k since I installed it on the K7V

and all caches are disabled, and the IRQ is assigned(11).

Chicane, do you have quake3? I can't seem to get mine to work at all, it crashes when it tries to go to the menu screen after the "id" movie. I haven't tried reinstalling it yet though...

[Taz]

Rob,

Yes turning off bus mastering will affect performance but I suggested it more as a fault finding exercise rather than a long term solution.

Good luck anyway.

[Taz]

Sounds like what my G200 did when I first go it, have you tried turning off bus mastering? Have you run the machine with just the G400 and no other cards as the problem may be with one of them.

[glarec]

the reason why i suggested that was because i wanna make sure there's no conflict whatsoever. the bp6 had a similar problem installing win2k with the ata66 also. their suggestion was to install it using the ata33 controller first, then move the drive to the ata66. since the k7v has 2 ata-66.. i guess this is not an option.

oh.. is there any eide controller driver from via that's for the win2k? if i remember right, if win2k doesn't have the right driver for the ata-66 controller.. it'll give you the bsod, just like win-nt.

sorry i can't give you more suggestions.. i haven't purchase my k7v yet.. good luck

[Rob M.]

the k7v uses the via 686a southbridge for ata-66, where the bp6 has a the dedicated highpoint ata-66 controller. The 686a is supported by win2k, but the highpoint isn't. In fact, the only win2k driver the K7V needs is the USB driver, all other drivers work fine (according to http://www.via.com.tw )

[chicane]

Bob...

I also used to hav the Quake 3 crashing upon loading.

Then i was using PD 5.52 driver.

I removed the TurboGL its gave me the same crashing.

So i removed PD 5.52 and installed PD 5.41 driver. Then the Quake 3 works. But not as fast as previous setup. Still its runs fine till now.

I did update the K7V BIOS to 1004 4a. Unfortunately after doing so. PC refused to bootup for watever reason. I quite sure i get it right. Flashing BIOS n Firmware is no stranger for me. I was lucky, managed to boot thru the Floppy and flashed back to BIOS 1004_3

If u wanna play any games likes Halflife, Quake 2/3. Remove the TurboGL and use the PD 5.41 native OpenGL to run it.

Its works for me.

Happy Athlon-ing

Let me know if u hv problem again

[JesterTek]

I get loads of different crashes and problems running my G400 (stnd). Its in a GA-5AX K6-iii system and it seems to conflict with everything. When I first got it it crashed the system dead after a few minutes. I rearranged all my PCI cards to change the IRQ's and it seemed to improve somewhat. Then I found out it had problems with the creative SB16 emulator, so removed that.
Sometimes it has problems with my PCI modem, and it still crashes when I try to open videos and the HDD is being thrashed. When I try to put UnrealT into a window it crashes 3 times out of 4 and shows the matrix screen thing (and sometimes randomly too).
The TurboGL works fine with Q3, but crashes UT instantly. Otherwise it has real D3D z-buffering (16 or 32-bit) problems with UT and turns some walls invisible at times (which can be handy though!).
Seems to run fine under linux, but then I don't use it for 3D then.
Otherwise its a great card .

[paulcs]

What power supply are you using? Brand? Wattage?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Rob M.]

Thanks for the tip chicane. everything is working perfect for me (knock on wood) now.

The card is stable, and doesn't crash as long as I keep agp bus speed right at 66mhz(luckily GFA still gives me that 200 mhz boost)

Funny, you'd think that a BX chipset board would be more stable than a KX133, but that's certainly not the case...

The matrix crash seems to be brought around by timing issues with the g400 and the agp bus I think.
I used to think the power draw of the g400 was too much, but I had the same crash in my K7V's agp pro slot, with a 300W power supply.
It's not limited to certain hardware configurations, I've personally seen it on every type of mb/cpu combo, (excluding ss7 mb's but Jester seems have a word or two about that)
It's certainly not software, it happens every driver release, in win98 and win2k

In fact, it all points to only one thing...

..I am certainly not getting that G800 or whatever it will be called (just imagine what 2 g400s would be like!)

[chicane]

Hi Bob...

Welcome. I happy to b of some help.
I frequent here. But if time do allows me. I will try as much as i can.

OKie...as for the Matrox G400. I sold quite a few PC using various video cards. But i hv yet sold a Geforce based system. So basically, Matrox G400 is slight more bitchy on current supplying to its. If ya motherboard can supply enough current. I guessed U better do some praying.

But Matrox G400 seemed to b few video cards tat can substain 89mhz of AGP bus speed. I did tat once wif my Asus P2B. Its still runs!! but only AGP1x.

Basically, i using a 250w on my K7V. I hv no issues with it. Only gripe is...matrox g400 still use PD 5.41 driver. I would like to use PD 5.52 driver. But Quake 3 will crash if i use this driver. Mayb wat i can do is copy PD 5.41's ICD driver and copy into PD 5.52 driver. This way, i will hv DX7 driver and a ICD tat can run Quake 3 stable.

I owned both Asus P2B and K7v now. Their stability is excellent. I guessed its draw down to attention paid by manufacturer to built a better motherboard.

Agreed?

[chicane]

Hi Bob...

Welcome. I happy to b of some help.
I frequent here. But if time do allows me. I will try as much as i can.

OKie...as for the Matrox G400. I sold quite a few PC using various video cards. But i hv yet sold a Geforce based system. So basically, Matrox G400 is slightly more bitchy on current supplying to its. If ya motherboard can supply enough current. I guessed U better do some praying.

But Matrox G400 seemed to b few video cards tat can substain 89mhz of AGP bus speed. I did tat once wif my Asus P2B. Its still runs!! but only AGP1x.

Basically, i using a 250w on my K7V. I hv no issues with it. Only gripe is...matrox g400 still use PD 5.41 driver. I would like to use PD 5.52 driver. But Quake 3 will crash if i use this driver. Mayb wat i can do is copy PD 5.41's ICD driver and copy into PD 5.52 driver. This way, i will hv DX7 driver and a ICD tat can run Quake 3 stable.

I owned both Asus P2B and K7v now. Their stability is excellent. I guessed its draw down to attention paid by manufacturer to built a better motherboard.

Agreed?

[paulcs]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here. Are these errors all gotten with the AGP slot overclocked?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net