Forget Matrox

[fds]

Come on now, he isn't comparing the SPEED of the cards but the support and reliabilty.

It is still a rather silly thing to compare these two since he must have used the G200 for quite some time and only got this new card recently.
RobertoI, you should make this comparison after you've used the GF card for at least as long as you had the G200. Surely it won't be an entirely flawless experience either.

Just why are people so quick to call someone an idiot? Makes me sad. Then again, why bother.

[C=64]

My goodness people! While Roberto's "Matrox absolutely takes the piss" comment was a bit, well, tactless and worthy of a reprimand, most of the flames he's been getting appear WAY off base.

In his original message, I saw NOTHING about him comparing the SPEED or IMAGE QUALITY of his now-defunct G200 and his shiny new GeForce.

INSTEAD, he has directed his complains squarely at reasonable issues that he felt were poorly addressed my Matrox.

I have had bad experience with Matrox ever since i bought the card, first no opengl, then crap opengl, and now this.

Can any of you G200 owners that were looking to use your G200 for some gaming honestly say you were satisfied with Matrox's OpenGL support when the card was first introduced?

And how long has it taken Matrox to provide it's G200 faithful with mature OpenGL drivers? Some would argue that we have yet to receive mature GL drivers, and with the G200 having been relegated to a secondary product, we may never.

As for Roberto's final complaint, directed at his cards unfortunate bios corruption, it does seem a bit odd that the BIOS became corrupted while engaging in a little multi-mon lovin'. But if what he's stating is true, then he has every right to be upset with the quality of his Matrox card. I know I'd be fuming if my G200 died in similar fashion.


...


But alas, Roberto's comments appeared to have bruised some delicate egos, ergo the requisite flames for comments uncomplimentary to all things Matrox. Of the entire lot, the only people who seemed to keep a level head about then were nehalmistry, who (unfortunately) sympathized with Roberto, and Stringy, who debated a bit with nehalmistry over his comments.

But poor nehalmistry had sympathized with the enemy, and as such, has been branded an enemy himself and thus fit to be flamed and belittled as all who fail to see Matrox as perfection incarnate.

For shame that someone interject any thing other then pure flammage <sic>.

...


I, for one, DO NOT see Roberto's points of contention as comparing apples to oranges. As I said before, In his original message, I saw NOTHING about him comparing the SPEED or IMAGE QUALITY of his now-defunct G200 and his shiny new GeForce. Instead, his complaints are leveled SOLELY against the quality of drivers and quality of product he received in his Matrox card. The only way you can honestly state an apples to oranges comparison is if you truly believe G200 users WERE NOT WORTH quality drivers when the card was released, ARE NOT WORTH quality drivers now, and WERE NEVER WORTH a quality product to begin with.

I, for one, am unwilling to make such a claim.

...


I fail to see how Roberto's posting to this forum was wrong. He did not blindly state a comment equivalent to "Screw Matrox". Instead, he stated issues he believed to be important, and that he felt his experience with his Matrox card had failed to satisfy these issues. To say he has no business posting here is to say we Matrox users have no business being exposed to what "one of our fallen" had difficulty with, and instead, must all remain insulated to what may be potential sort comings of our beloved video cards. And unless we address his problems in a rational and constructive manner (and animated gif's of flames are something I consider far from), others who may feel similarly will also jump ship to what they feel to be a better product. The ONLY reason ANY of you should feel upset about this is if you truly feel his complaints are unfounded. If you cannot, then leave him be. If you can, PLEASE
enligthen the rest of us.

The ONLY thing such heavy handedness can lead to is others seeing this petty behavior and becoming AFRAID to ask questions or make comparisons on hopes of getting feed back. I know I, for one, appreciate the abundance of information that this forum Ant has graciously provided us has afforded me. But I take resentment at anyones attempt at curtailing this information.

...


I'm sorry that Roberto felt in necessary to spend his apparently hard-earned money on a GeForce. And NOT because he bought the GeForce. I'm sorry because he felt that was the only way to surmount the problems he was having with his graphics card. To blame him for buying a GeForce to replace a G200 is petty. Of course the GeForce is more powerful. But do you really expect someone to spend his money on buying a new card that's the performance equivalent of a G200? That's ludicrous. Because he stated he was unhappy with the release drivers for the G200, I am assuming he bought the card right when it came out, when it WAS top-of-the-line. Why would be expected to do ANYTHING less YEARS LATER now that he's replaced the card?

...


I will point out one more thing: I have only seen a single message from Roberto, the one that started this thread. All the pot shots, all the flames, and all the belittling have apparently gone unheeded. But the flames still pour on, unabated by the simple fact that the flamee IS NO LONGER LISTENING. But why? The only thing I can think of is an easy-to-deduce variation on dZeus's insulting .sig.

...


I will state that of the 4 machines in my household, none are occupied by a single nVidia product.
I will go on further, and state that MY personal 2 machines have a G400 Max and a Millennium G200.
But I will also say that I refuse to allow anyone to try and blind me into brand loyalty. I will purchase WHATEVER CARD I feel best meets my personal needs, whether it be Matrox, 3Dfx, or even (gasp) nVidia.

...


There, I said my peace. Since I choose not to sugar coat my (really, really) long message in pro-Matrox propaganda, I'm expecting the prompt and plentiful flammage to commence... OR, you folks could pleasantly surprise me with posts that are relavent and useful, and prove to me that my sentiments are unfounded. I'd so strongly perfer the later...

(a very long winded) C=64


p.s. I started writing this before fds commented. If only I could have made my statement as short and right to the point as he had. Damn my creative writing minor...

[This message has been edited by C=64 (edited 23 July 2000).]

[RobertoI]

Forget Matrox

Dear all,
I posted a topic a while back about my dead G200, whose BIOS got corrupted beyond repair (believe me, I tried everything) as a result of simply being used in a dual monitor configuration. I have now bought a GeForce 256 DDR, and it was the best decision i have mde in along time. I have had bad experience with matrox ever since i bought the card, first no opengl, then crap opengl, and now this. Matrox absolutely takes the piss.

Cheers

------------------
Roberto Iozzinie

[Jorden]

I fail to see how Roberto's posting to this forum was wrong.

He's in the wrong forum for that, Magnificent Computer ( ). He should've posted it in The Soap Box. Here's it's a rant in the wrong place. Even when he has fled the place like it was a plague.

I for one have never seen him ask us for help, but for in that other thread, where he asks for help because he's a poor student who cannot afford a new videocard. Lo and behold, a couple of days later he's got himself a GF 256. How did he do that then? Does nVidia sponsor poor students these days?

Jord.

[DosFreak]

A Geforce goes for pretty cheap these days. With the Geforce MX they will be even cheaper.

[Cloudy]

In the G200 times, I took a lot of flames from father Joel, Lukey and others because I said the G200 (which I still have) was crap, well it still is !
The G200 is the black sheep of matrox. While the TNT works fine on almost any computer with any chipset, the G200 doesn't. The G200 kicks ass in 2D and that's it. I own a G400 too and it's the first real successor to the good old Millenium 1. The G200 was, is and will remain forever CRAP. I still didn't forgive matrox for releasing a CRAPPY OpenGL for the G200 when it was already too old to be considered a gamers card if it ever was.
Matrox gave me two good things (Millenium and G400) and one VERY BAD thing - G200, if they fail like that once more, it'll be bye bye matrox and propably welcome 3dfx/PowerVR or whatever.
The G200 is a lesson about how not to make and sell a video card, not to mention how not to treat your customers.

------------------
Cloudy
Asus P2B-DS, 2 x Celeron 400@75Mhz, 192Mb Ram, SB Live! Platinum,
2 x IBM 4.3Gb scsi,IBM 22GB IDE, Pioneer DVD ROM scsi, G400 32MB DH (Oc to 111.1%).

[R@nkor]

...it was the best decision i have mde in along time...

(Obviously) you haven't been around for long...:P

"...believe me, I tried everything..."

Was it still under warranty? If so, have you tried Rma'ing the thing?

Probably not.

If not, disregard

"...I have now bought a GeForce 256 DDR..."

Oooh, wow...That must've made your wallet a little thinner. Should've waited for the GF2 MX. It sort of spanks your GF1 DDR for about a fraction of the cost.

I'm (still) using my Mystique G200 no problems. It's almost 3 years old. On the most unpredictable Super7 mobo out there, an FIC PA-2013 based on the infamous MVP3 chipset running a K6-2 550 on 256 MB of PC-100 RAM. Granted AGP 1X BUT no problems.

For the record, I'm running vid cards from Matrox (Mystique G200, Millenium G400), 3dfx (V3 2000, 3000), and soon-to-be Nvidia (GF2 MX).

For quality images...Matrox.

(IMO), I believe that the only vid card that (ever) came even remotely close to Matrox' image quality was Hercules' Dynamite 128 w/c was based on the now defunct Tseng Labs' ET6000 chipset. This was a 2D-only board and it was very good. I still run it in a P-166 MMX file backup system.



[This message has been edited by R@nkor (edited 23 July 2000).]

[Joel]

All I can say is that I have a G200 SD PCI setting in my workstation at work under Windows NT 4.0 and it runs great. I also have my older G200 SG AGP setting in one of the kids PC with the other PC having a G200 SD PCI and am having no problems with them either. Sometime you just have to fix that short between the keyboard and the floor for things to work right.

BTW: The true black sheep of the Matrox line was that NEC based PVR m3D.

Joel

[Duty]

My 2 cents...

When I ordered my G200 it was around for about a month. I knew that they were having driver problems but got the card anyways.
I had researched the G200 way before the card came out and waited for the reviews before I put my money on the table.

Well, I for one took matrox for their word that the OGL ICD would be coming shortly (about a month, seeing that at that time they were giving dates). It was about that time I found this site and started coming here. Gteat site with great people.

Yes I have been here far longer then when I started posting this time. I was not well known having only posted a few times under the name Gyaq.

I wanted the card for work in 3DS Max, premier, Photoshop, and gaming.
Well it didn't live up to the writing on the box (pun intended) in a reasonable time frame. So it was relegated to the secondary computer and I put in a viper 550. The viper did the work for a month before having it rma'd (3month process), it died. I stopped playing with max around that time so it became a moot point.

I had a trident 3d image crap card (now in a server) until I got the viper back.

Time passes...

I watch the reviews of the G400 DH. Seeing that I was not doing any gaming or work that needed OGL support(seemed to have the same problems as the G200), just great 2D, I got the DH. So now, nearly a year later, all of these vid cards are running to this day, the viper is the only vid card ever to go bad, but after the rma it has been rock solid. Both the G200 and the viper have gone into friends’ computers and are great little cards for how they are being used.

I have been around computer technology sense I was 8 years old (31 now) and all I can say about the OGL issue is matrox should have been a little more up front about the support at the beginning (I felt a little miss lead). That might have lowered the sales a bit but, in the end, would have made them look a lot better.

Remember all current video card companies have driver issues!

That is a fact of life. Programming is not easy at that level, if it was everyone would be doing it and there would be few to no problems.

My Hurc 128 had driver problems, my viper had driver problems, my G200 had driver problems, my G400 <u>has</u> driver problems and what ever I get next will have driver problems.

Sorry but that's how it works...

Lastly, I love all of the matrox cards I have owned over the years. The image quality has been great and the support (here not matrox) has been great. And matrox itself seems to be getting a lot better in the support area (Thanks Haig!). But I was really mad at matrox for a time because of the OGL issue(again, I felt a little mislead). I would not have gotten both the G200 and the viper had I known that the ICD would not be out in the same year that I got the G200. Sorry if that offends anyone but functionality drives my computer purchases. For now, my little DH is great. I can play all of the games I like and do my work. If I need to replace it, I will find the card that fits the bill and get it. I understand company loyalty but before I can be loyal I must be able to get my work done.

So... I can feel for RobertoI in his frustration and I think if he had not gotten the nvida card many of you would have as well. Remember that many people just want the computer to work, no tweaking or special install method, just work.

Hey that was fun and cost effective for only 2 cents

Jeff

------------------
Remember when naps were a bad thing?

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You stop learning when you are die, and some people just don't know the're dead yet!
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ABIT BP6 - 2 x Celeron 500 - 256MB Ram - MX300 - 3Com 509c - 3com 905tx - Creative PC DVD 6x - G400 DH - DSL (True Love Here) - Win98 se - Win 2000 pro

[LAMFDTK]

I have been saving this for a long time, waiting for the perfect moment, Remember the argument of the G200 Open GL on the box flames? It S-a-y-s OpenGL r-i-g-h-t on the box! I still have the box and I cut out the only reference to OGL that is on it and here it is:





[This message has been edited by LAMFDTK (edited 26 July 2000).]

[Bixler]

This post will probably end this thread...as I have (unwittingly) done in so many others.
OK..Here goes...

SUPPORT MATTERS!

Support...you get here, and also difinitively and finally through Matrox Tech. support. I've had problems with lotsa harware, being one of the few and faithful NON Wintel conspiracy theorists out there who just hate being told what is "best" for you, and wishing for choices in a free market. Thus, I have been a SS7 (and now an Athlon) owner for three years.

I bought my poor li'l Marvel G200 TV wishing to do a little video editing, and figuring the extra $150 was cheap for the price of a comparable (so I thought) vid card, and that would do most everything that was out there at the time, adding in the TV and DVD capability.

Result of my purchase????

Stunning video...absoulutely stunning.

I'd bought several comps prior to this, but never really paid any attention to this. The G200 was amazing to my poor uneducated prefab-comp buying mind, and I was impressed. But problems followed...several.

Most of the probs had to do with what I plugged my poor li'l Marvel into, (and what I was trying to do with it), but as I stabbed around in the dark, screaming at every hardware vendor inside my machine, there was one RESPONSE...

HERE.

Don't you know what that means to the poor uneducated venturer into the world of high performance??

It's priceless. The hardware don't matter like the software (updates) and support that you can get when you have a problem.

There's always a solution, and it's SELDOM buying a new piece of hardware...if you've got the patience and fortitude to find answers.
------------------
Tim,

Currently fighting (blindly) thorough WinDoze and Athlon problems...just wishing the problem was his Matrox Vid card (a G200) so he could get an honest answer.

[Werdna]

By the way, when I got annoyed way up there it was because of his last comment "Matrox absolutely takes the piss." that is why I sorta yelled and stuff.

[dZeus]

Remember all current video card companies have driver issues!

That's right, and since Matrox top-notch tech support tries to help customers by fixing their driver problems as soon as possible.

We, as MURCers can help them by sending in our bug-reports. My own goal is to get perfect (99% bugfree) Windows 2000 drivers for my G400. Matrox definetely is on their way of fullfilling my goal...

[Randy Simons]

LAMFDTK: I have a Mill G200 retail, but I can't find any referrence to OpenGL on the box.

Needles to say, that doesn't excuse for the lack of OpenGL all those months

[Electric Amish]

Dammit Joel! You took my plug for the m3D I owned one of those POS's and it didn't do sh!t for graphics acceleration. It was mostly un-supported.

Anyway, to the discussion at hand. I have a Millennium G200. I bought it for gaming. At that point in my gaming life I didn't play ANY OpenGL games, so it was great! I even played Half Life in D3D and was extremely pleased with it.

My friend ponied up the cash and bought an Elsa Gladiac GeForce2 GTS for $380 when the first came out. I was building us nearly identical systems (abit KA7/Athlon 700). He put his GTS in his and I put my G400 in mine. In the beginning I had a little trouble with the VIA chipset and my G400. His GTS ran fine, it just had some minor graphical glitches.

Now, I have the G400 running smoothly, he's updated his drivers (he still has graphical glitches) and last weekend we were both playing Rogue Spear at 1280x1024. We both play Asheron's Call without any slowdown (other than internet). We both play Age of Kings at the highest res and fastest speeds.

So tell me....why would I need a GeForce if I'm playing all the same games just as well as he is???

amish