G400 Driver Rant (Depressing)

[Gurm]

I'm beginning to get upset. Not "mad", or "angry". Just upset.

Matrox has the finest hardware out there. Why then, after several YEARS, are they incapable of writing an OpenGL ICD?

I know. I've picked on many people for this same rant. Well, I've hit bottom.

The G400 is the ONLY major card which does not function under SMP in Win2k.

The G400 is the ONLY major card which doesn't support many OpenGL modes.

The G400 is the ONLY major card which doesn't run Q3Radiant.

And it joins such wonderful cards as the Rage128 and Savage3D at the bottom of the pack for OpenGL compatibility overall.

I'm willing to suffer lower frame rates for the sake of prettiness and the wonderful benefits of the G400.

But why oh why can't they just spend some time FIXING THE ICD?

*sigh*

Ok, I'm done now. But I had to get it out of my system. I almost bought a GeForce2 yesterday. That's how pissed off I am. I'm trying to get caught up on gaming, and I can't play Dungeon Keeper 2 (no text in 32-bit mode), Quake3 (crashes in SMP mode), Daikatana (cutscenes cut in and out), or use any of my OpenGL screensavers. I can't make Quake3 levels to not play on my non-smp enabled card, because Q3radiant doesn't work with the G400. I can't do my modeling because Maya has a fit with the G400 drivers, and 3DS Max is only slightly more happy!

So I've come to the end of my rope. The sad part is that I can't find a different card that I want while waiting for the G800 - which likely won't work with Q3Radiant, Dungeon Keeper 2, or major OpenGL modes. But it will feature some really spiffy effects that no game will use. *sigh*

I'm not this upset normally. Really I'm not. But this is getting ridiculous.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Greebe]

They are working on it, Gurm.

[Mr. Cold]

You'll notice at the end of this message that I list _EVERY_ single component of my main personal computer system. Now, before I built my computer last year I researched _EVERY SINGLE_ component category and read reviews, newsgroups, hung out on the geek channels on EFnet IRC, etc for weeks on end. I was serious about this, because this is only my 2nd PC I have ever bought in 5 years.

Now, when it came down to graphics, I had a tough decision to make. By the way, the last graphics card I owned was a Trident 9680 2 MB pci (which was worth about $5 several years ago - think about that). I asked myself "am I really _that_ into video games?" And the answer is no. Most PC video games bore me to death, and the really really good ones (such as Diablo II) you'll notice _don't_ require you have the latest whiz-bang VideoGameBoy Thradacaster Turbo Dynamite 990 card for your PC. I also noticed that this new graphics card was getting rave reviews for the DualHead feature and its outstanding image and text quality. Well, I figured the _functionality_ outweighed a few extra frame rates for Quake 3 (which I think is a pathetic excuse for a spiffed up version of Wolfenstein 3D anyway, not to mention it doesnt even support EAX sound [sblive is the best sound card on the market] like Unreal Tournament and OpenGL is slower than Direct3D on ALL graphics cards, not just Matrox).

Now, after all was said and done, I purchased the G400 MAX which in my opinion is still (after a YEAR at least, heh) the best video card for serious PC enthusiasts when you factor in all aspects of the graphics and video fields.

If you walked into my room today, you would be blown away at the setup I have for movies on a personal computer. I have a big television which clones the DVD movie on my big monitor on both sides of my room. Along with that, I have all 5 satellites spread around the room, so the Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound totally ENVELOPS you in the DVD movie experience. Seriously, the DualHead capability alone makes this card blow away anything else when it comes to DVD watching as you can clone the picture on two screens at once which makes it rock.

Sometimes it amazes me how far PC technology has advanced in just the past 5 years. And the thing is, PC technology advances _EXPONENTIALLY_ - i.e., better compiler = create even better software -> make better software--> better CAD software to create even better hardware, etc increasing in magnitude every year.

well, theres my $0.02

p.s. - I'm waiting for the Playstation 2 until I get more serious into video games as I think it will blow away anything this world has ever seen when it comes to home video gaming. (the games can do Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound! Imagine a theater like experience on your console video games!)

p.p.s. - Yeah I know a lot of you might have better hardware in certain categories than me, but seriously IMO I think I still have the best multimedia setup POSSIBLE on a consumer PC today.

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• Box 1:
• dual-boot OS'es: Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional , Microsoft Windows Millennium Edition
• Case (chassis): P.o.S. $35 mid-tower.. (gonna get a new full-tower soon, any recommendations?)
• Video card: Matrox Millenium G400 Max
• Monitor: Hitachi SuperScan Elite 751 (CM751)
• Sound card: Sound Blaster Live! Platinum
• Speakers: Cambridge SoundWorks DeskTop Theater 5.1 DTT2500 Digital
• Motherboard: Abit BP6
• CPU: 2 x Intel Celeron 366 OC'ed to 550 = 1.1 Ghz (;-)
• Memory: 128MB pc133
• Keyboard: Microsoft Internet Keyboard
• Mouse: Microsoft IntelliMouse with IntelliEye
• Hard drive: IBM Deskstar 34 GXP (27gb)
• Printer: Epson Stylus Color 440
• Ethernet card: 3Com EtherLink 10/100 PCI For Complete PC Management NIC (3C905C-TX)
• Floppy drive: Teac 1.44MB
• CD-ROM drive: Plextor UltraPlex 40max
• DVD-ROM drive: I/O Magic MagicDVD 8x
• CD-R drive: Panasonic 7502
• SCSI controller: Diamond Fireport 20
• Scanner: UMAX Astra 2200 (SCSI)
• Modem: SupraExpress 56i Sp V.90
• Webcam: Logitech QuickCam Express

• Box 2:
• operating system: FreeBSD 4.1
• CPU: Intel Pentium 60
• memory: 32 MB
• hard drive: Quantum Fireball 1 GB

legalize

[Daniel Fazekas]

Dungeon Keeper 2 (no text in 32-bit mode)

DK2 has nothing to do with the OpenGL ICD.
Seriously though, are you sure the missing text in 32-bit only occurs on the G400? Maybe it's a problem with the game itself.

It's quite unfair to state DK2 does not work with the G400. Dk2 v1.70 works very well even with EMBM enabled, except of course for the missing menu text in 32-bit mode.

You should see how much trouble people have running Diablo2 in D3D under W2k while on my G400 it runs flawlessly. Except for crackling sound on my SMP system... Shame on Creative.

--fds

[Wombat]

I agree with Gurm. I know a lot of people that say that the G400 isn't meant to be the latest cutting edge video card. They have a weak argument, but I can sort of see their side of things.

What bothers me is that even Matrox goes out of their way to market this video card as a solution for professionals. If that's true, then the less-than-adequate support for gaming might be excusable.
However, a "professional" 3D video card still not having support for SMP, Maya, 3DS, and many OpenGL configurations over a year after the card's introduction is just lousy.
I know that Matrox is a relatively small house, but that doesn't mean that it's okay to offer relatively small feature support.

[Greebe]

And I suppose Haig hasn't been trying to resolve any of this?... Quite the contrary, they just signed BB's specific to addressing Pro OGL users issues. Like I said before, it's being worked on.

[CannyOne]

Ok, You say it's being "worked on". But that's just what we've been hearing for months. When the latest set of drivers, for Win2k, were released I was so delighted. But I installed them only to find that DX performance had been degraded and the ICD still wasn't fixed. So after months of waiting I'm rather disappointed to say the least.

[Rob M.]

I agree with you Gurm, I'm very frustrated.

I just wonder why it is that when I make a thread that's basically a petition for a better OpenGL ICD that no one bothers to make any reply to it... Matrox WILL do something about it if there's demand for it. Unfortunately my thread only proves that those of use looking for a ICD should be buying Nvidia instead.

Currently I'm looking forward to when I can remove this g400 from my system...

[PaulS]

Hi Gurm,

Just like old times really. I have pretty much resigned myself to the idea Matrox is not going make any more than a token effort to support professional systems.

The lack of an SMP optimised driver is a good example. The G400 is very scaleable card (marketing speak for processor hungry) and could probably extract great performance from a second processor.

I wonder if it has something to do with the culture of a hardware company. Development dollars go into silicon, but the drivers are just an afterthought?

Paul

[Wombat]

Greebe,
I appreciate that there are people working on these things. I know that there are good people trying to improve the performance of my hardware. I don't think that tech support and the Matrox coders are sitting on their ass. I appreciate the extra effort that people have put forth to assemble Beta teams (obviously).

However, if they've been working dilligently for a year, and still haven't fixed these problems, then someone higher up in Matrox had better decide to put more funding in the right places, and recruit the extra help they need. It certainly seems like a wise investment to me.


[This message has been edited by Wombat (edited 01 August 2000).]

[LAMFDTK]

Gee this is 1998 all over I just have to get in here. Time marches on and progress should also! I would expect some of that STR goodness!
Thats it.

[Jeff]

Maybe nVidia has better driver support but let's not forget how bad it would be to own a Diamond or S3. Matrox doesn't forget about old video cards and has pretty regular driver releases.

However after a year they should have better ICD and Windows 2000 has been out quite a while now.

JP

[Gurm]

Some quick responses to thoughts expressed in here:

Dungeon Keeper 2:

It's Matrox's fault. 32-bit works fine on nVidia boards. ATI is also broken, but that's ATI. Their entire driver is hideously flawed so we expect it. I can't speak against the Savage or Voodoo5 - haven't tried 'em. But the TNT2 runs 32-bit just fine...

Gaming vs. Professional:

If the G400 is primarily a professional card and NOT a gaming card, then Maya should work. 3DS Max should work. And SMP support should have come out of the box in the NT drivers. But guess what? It didn't. Does that mean that the G400 isn't a professional card? Not necessarily, but it certainly looks that way.

So, if it's a "gaming" card, it should bloody well work in all my games! But it doesn't, so I can only assume it's NOT a gaming card. So what is it then? Not professional, not gaming?

"We're working on it...":

This doesn't fly any more. Honestly. I know they're working on it. I know they know about the issues. But they don't seem particularly concerned with fixing them. What do we get with each new driver release? Better monitor customization controls. Flat panel support. Yay, but... um... how many G400's with flat panel support were sold? I haven't seen one, personally. And my monitor has a Win2k .inf file so it works quite nicely without customization. I realize these are things SOMEONE wanted, but perhaps they could focus on bugs instead of adding new functionality?

And it's not like they ever made a 100% ICD for the G200, either. That still suffers all the same flaws as the G400 ICD, and more to boot.

And...

Anyway, you people KNOW me. I'm not normally a Matrox detractor. But I played with a GeFarce2 that a friend had me put in his machine, and it just worked. Yeah, the G400 still has better 2D and on par or better quality 3D (discounting speed and new features), and the GeFarce doesn't do EMBM (although its bump mapping IS rather nice). But the nVidia chip just worked, in SMP and ALL the games we tried. In Maya and 3DS Max. In all OpenGL modes. EVERYTHING just worked.

I know next week's detonator drivers will likely make the card crash and burn like a Russian jet flown by a Libyan national, but I was very impressed (and then depressed) by my experience with a card I've always poo-pooed. And yes, it had nVidia's equivalent of "dual-head". And its DVD capabilities were pretty scary.

*sigh*

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[This message has been edited by Gurm (edited 01 August 2000).]

[Erich]

I´m afraid i have to agree with Gurm here. I mostly play games on my computer and would really like some bugg fixes in the ICD AND some more speed.

Win2k(fastest, 640 ,texture quality lowest): 54fps
Win98(same settings as win2k): 72fps

Bugg fixes is the primary thing they should be working with, me thinks.

And as Gurm said "It´s beeing worked on" isn´t enough anymore. We have heard that so many times now that it´s almost funny when hearing it now. And looking at other video cards and say "It isn´t that bad, look at X(e.g ATI) win2k drivers" doesn´t make it any better.

Drivers is Matroxs only problem with the G400 cards.

[Ant]

I think Matrox are in serious danger of heading for graphics card limbo, good hardware but not quite good enough to be a professional card and not quite good enough to be a top flight gaming card. And what do we have on the horizon, the G450 which is nothing more than a G400 with a lick of new paint. While I think companies like nVidia are getting a little crazy with all of their new chip releases I think it is a bad move on Matrox's part to be coming out with something like the G450 over a year after the G400 was first released, and lets face all the G450 is is a G400, if they had released it back in Q1 as intended it wouldn't have been such a bad move. True there is SUPPOSEDLY the G800 but how long do they expect people to wait? There is no (official) talk of it, no idea when it will appear, no real idea even if it shine works. Every time I try to have a friendly little chat about upcoming products I get slapped down with the Matrox PR bible of why they shalt not talk to the likes of me.