Tom's Hardware guide: Matrox G450

[Casey Jones]

Hey Indiana, are you a proctologist by chance? Sounds like Rimjob could use some pointers

Casey

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Every silver lining has a touch of gray.

[Joel]

CPU power is irrelevant as long as you have a 500MHz+ CPU.

Also if that is the case then why does AMD and Intel continue to produce faster and faster CPUs. It's the CPU that pumps the data to the graphics card in the first place. But then again we are talking about a card that was never intended, even though marketing screwed up, to be a gamers card. That is why the Tweak3D review is a whole lot better than Tom's will ever be and Quake III btw is not the end all be all of a graphics card.

Joel

[Gurm]

Rubank,

I'm REALLY REALLY FRIGGIN sick of people in Europe bitching about how they "can't get {insert item X here} for less than {insert price Y here} from {insert distributor Z here}".

Step 1: Go to pricewatch.
Step 2: Find the item.
Step 3: Call the company based in the USA.
Step 4: Have them ship it to you.

Ooh! Wow! Imagine that! And a shiny new {item X} shows up on your doorstop. Yeah, it'll run you $30 in shipping, and yeah, it'll take a couple weeks to show up, but... last time I checked, UPS delivers anywhere in the world.

Now, on to other things.

Tom has, countless times:

1. Fudged results
2. Fabricated things
3. Told bold untruths
4. Outright LIED about one product or another

Don't defend him. If his people lie, he has in effect lied. End of story.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[This message has been edited by Gurm (edited 10 December 2000).]

[Pace]

If you want to see what's wrong with Tom, read all his stuff about the graphics card that will rock the world (Q3Test anyone?) and his RAMBUS stuff.

Yea we might agree with him, but after reading his articles that's about all you can do - when he writes these articles it isn't an article about the pros and cons of either side - it's a rant about the stuff he doesn't like from whatever company he doesn't like!

Yet to read this review however...maybe his buddies are better than him...naahhhh!

Paul.

[Himself]

Note, my comments were directed at articles I've read from Pabst himself, Van Smith seems to be a lot better. There's another guy there who is ok too, but I can't recall his name.

[Indiana]

Originally posted by Joel:
Also if that is the case then why does AMD and Intel continue to produce faster and faster CPUs. It's the CPU that pumps the data to the graphics card in the first place.

Joel, are you working for the printing press? Nice to see you repeat incomplete citations, thus changing the original sentences meaning.
There was a reply inbetween, too, hoping to clear this thing up, after you cited it wrong the first time.
The original text without any "redactional editing" was: "All the things you mention (running other software, having sound enabled,...) only cost CPU-time, not gfx-mem bandwidth - and the latter is the one and only limiting factor for Q-III performance in the resolutions Tom tested, CPU power is irrelevant as long as you have a 500MHz+ CPU."
It's not correct to just cite the last part of the upper sentence and try to make a general statement out of it!


So, lets put it the other way round: CPU power is irrelevant (if >500+MHz Duron) for QIII timedemo demo001 fps-scores in a resolution of 1280x1024x32, all other setting to HQ, because Q-III at that res/colour depth is heavily fillrate and bandwidth limited WITH THE G400/G450 (and especially with the G450-SDR). This even applies to a GeFart Ultra, although a bit less.

Originally posted by Joel:
But then again we are talking about a card that was never intended, even though marketing screwed up, to be a gamers card. That is why the Tweak3D review is a whole lot better than Tom's will ever be and Quake III btw is not the end all be all of a graphics card.

Agreed, but that was not the point. Of course Q-III-scores don't mean much for other games, of course Q-III-scores (or other game-benches) are unimportant in the G450's targeted market and yes, the review does have it's flaws.


But it was claimed here that Tom had tested the G450-SDR and put a "G450-DDR" on the images to mislead people - and from all the numbers he posted the tested card was in fact a G450 with DDR-Ram, a SDR-G450 would've got MUCH worse results.


[This message has been edited by Indiana (edited 10 December 2000).]

[Greebe]

Indiana, I also have the G450 DDR and believe he has the SDR version based on the testing I've done.

[Joel]

Too bad he didn't include the all important information screen.



That would have shown for sure which one he was using.

Joel

[frankymail]

About Tom,
the whole "We Hate Tom" thing started with his VERY BIAISED PREVIEW of the nVIDIA TNT2. The guy is not the world's loser, he's just a guy who made (a lot of) mistakes. The worst part is that hemake more from time to time. His latest is of course the G450 review (I hope someone sent him the REAL prices). My view about the G450: inexpensive, feature packed, very good for the targetted market share. I personally won't buy one (still holding firmly to my G400) and won't buy a nVIDIA-based card either. I'm gathering some money for a G800... VERY looking forward GDC!!!

Francis Beausejour
Frankymail@yahoo.com

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- Intel P3 1GHz Retail
- Asus CUSL2-M
- 256 MB TinyBGA (2 DIMMs)
- Matrox Millennium G400 DH 32 MB O/C 175/233
- Sony G400 + Sony 210GS
- Dual Quantum Fireball LM Plus 15 GB
- Teac W54E CD-RW + Panasonic 8X DVD-ROM
- Sound Blaster Live! Value
- 3Dfx VoodooTV 200 (Nov. 8TH 2000)
Francis: 19/Male/5'8"/155Lbs/light blue eyes/dark auburn hair/loves SKA+punk+Hard/Software... just joking, I'm not THAT desperate (again, Marie-Josée, if you ever happen to read this (like THAT could happen...), I'm just joking and I REALLY, REEEAAALLLLLYYY love you!))

[Liquid Snake]

He still should've stated clearly whether he was using the DDR or SDR version at the beginning of the review. And it's true, even though Tom did not write the review, he should've gone over it and fixed any mistakes in it. That is the job of an editor.

[Rimfaxe]

Hi Guys!

Wow, and I didn't believe that there is so much people reading and writing no more. *sight*
I haven't been here since the first post. I was sure that there would be like three replies or something...

Ant: Please don't take it personal, I didn't think you were the MURC. If you were offended I apologize. I am really sorry. I will not quote the things that have been sad here before. There is lots of feeling about Tom's Hardware. Or is it Tom Pabst that there is lot of feelings about? But Ant. Isn’t a majority of them that post most frequently that thinks bad, or not so good about Tom Pabst?

If you post something about anything at Tom's Hardware site you know for sure that someone will go down on Tom's Hardware site. Just look at the size of this topic...

It is still not Tom Pabst that does the most of the articles now days. He didn't do this. But I guess you don't care because you made up your mind, didn't you?

Have a good day all. Be nice, ok? Where ever you are from. I know I will. I am going to study "Automatic Control Systems" today. I have an exam on Thursday. I love it! :P


[This message has been edited by Rimfaxe (edited 10 December 2000).]

[Dogbert]

Just like Thundrchez said, if you want the best and most professional reviews, go to www.aceshardware.com, if you want a gamer's view of things, try www.firingsquad.com, they're ok.

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I like to con people, but I also like to insult them. What if I could combine the two, I would call it - Consult !

[Brian R.]

Rubank - Read what I wrote ok? I was applying an example from printed journalism to on-line journalism. You have a problem with that?

[rubank]

Brian R,
No.

Gurm,
it may surprise you to learn that I know all about importing goods from US. A couple of years back I, in the line of my business, imported shotgun accessories from overseas, so I know about your "...a couple of weeks to deliver..", and that´s from business relations experiences.
As you noted, there´s shipment expenses to pay, and it doesn´t stop there.
There are in many cases sales taxes and other costs to take into account. And there are consumer rights issues to consider.
Do I have to go on?

And who´s bitching? I just stated the facts. Not having to live in Disneyland makes all the extra cash well worth it.

Liquid Snake,
it is stated that they use the DDR board, but I agree with you that they should have done a better job of it.

UPDATE:

Dogbert (and others),
I just read the G450 review at aceshardware.
Have you read it? Do you think they came to other conclusions than THG?

rubank

[This message has been edited by rubank (edited 10 December 2000).]

[FrankDC]

Anyone who has read Pabst's site for more than a few months knows that manufacturers fall into or out of his favor depending on how much free product (and lunches) they provide. For example he was viciously anti-Intel, until Intel started blowing a little smoke up his rear end.

But some of the criticisms being leveled against him here, esp. regarding the G450 review, are ridiculous. If Kruzin can criticize the way Pabst refers to Nvidia's GF/GF2/GF2U series as "new products", Matrox deserves at least as much criticism for the G450. Good grief, at least Nvidia's later products are faster than their earlier ones.

Look, the G450 simply has no market outside the business sector. Nvidia is the better choice for 3D speed right now, and for 3D display quality the Radeon looks as good and is also faster. Don't blame Pabst for pointing some of these facts out.