Help me minimize "moire"

[The PIT]

This brings up a theory I've got. When you have a onsite replacement you don't get a new monitor just one from a pile thats been returned from a overfussy user (In there eyes) and just meets the specs.
Out of 3 different 19 inch monitors I had eight replacements. One I sold becuase the image lacks focus compaired to the previous one that died a natural depth and I knew I'd get a shit replacement. In the meantime the brand new monitor was doa it's replacement was blurry down one side the replacement for that had a clear picture but couldn't sync between different display modes (useless in games) plus the geomentry was out and couldn't be adjusted. The replacemnet for that ghosted so that ended up on my second pc which sits in the corner. Couldn't afford any more time of work waiting for a replacement. The others I've sent back were just plainly out of focus.
At the moment I'm using a NEC 950 which I saw before I bought the others where mail order.
I'm sure that the apart from the dead ones the others I've sent back will have been sent out to someone else.

[FrankDC]

Pit, it's not a theory. It's a scam. You pay for a new monitor, a few months later it dies or has a problem, the company replaces it with a refurbished/returned/thrashed/otherwise inferior unit.

This isn't limited to monitors, just about all hardware manufacturers have the same policy now. But the infuriating thing about monitors is the variance in quality, even with the same brand and model. You can read great reviews (actually Samsung is a perfect example), go out and buy one based on the reviews, and be completely disappointed with the unit you get. So monitor reviews are pretty much worthless.

[Raptor^]

I can't remember exactly what model my monitor is, its older than the current line up though.

I tried various refreshes and twiddled around with lots of settings in 800x600, but none of them seemed to make any odds.

------------------
Unreal Fortress developer

[Greebe]

FrankDC, refurbished hardware is typically better than new, fresh off the line and last longer than their counter parts. This is because a real live person (sometimes half dead ones) took the time to diagnose the original problem and in the case of a monitor generally have to be realigned once the repair is completed.

[FrankDC]

Greebe, I don't see how you can make that claim. e.g. I used to work for a hard drive manufacturer and the refurbished drives they'd send out as replacements had 1/3 to 1/2 the MTBF of new drives. Maybe it's different with monitors, but from reports I've seen over the years it's not.

[The PIT]

What you got to remember about review samples unless the company is totally ****ole it will send the best example out it can find in the factory and no doubt it will keep sending the same one out if they can.
As for variance at work I don't think I've seen a bad iilyama (I saw 16 17 inch monitors in one day all good focus and nice and clear) I just seemed to get four turkeys on the trot. Belina I saw one good and a good review so I bought one. Major mistake after buying I saw three others all showing nice blurry images.
In sheffield you've got zero almost zero chance of seeing any major manufacture on display with a screen over 17 inch. The only place I can think off is Pc World and on those you don't have the option to see the desktop just a crappy video of pcworld. Neither can I see Pc world unpacking a monitor for you to try first.
I was very surprised to see the NEC FE950 at staples. Staples aren't stocking this unit in future.
The other problem with stores like Pcworld and Staples is that you're likely to pay £50 to £100 over the price.

[ccoltas]

Well this monitor is even worse overall than the last monitor I had! I thought I was being picky and started to become self-conscious and worried that I was not in the right, but now I am just patiently trying to get what I deserve. Value for my money and a working product. I'll relate my story in full.

I had decided to buy a 19" TTX 8997 monitor for $479.00 CAN ($550.85 inc tax) based on what I saw in a 17" TTX I have at work. It just looks nice. I had been comparing it with a Samsung 900 IFT 19", since I had also seen a 17" Samsung 700IFT which looked wicked sharp and very nice. The 19" TTX was sharp enough for me though, as the Samsung was priced at $569.00 CAN ($90 CAN more than the TTX, and $654.35 inc tax. Canadian 15% taxes!!!) I bought a 19" TTX 8997 .25 dot pitch monitor on December 19 2000 from an EXCELLENT store called PLUG & PLAY on Dufferin, after looking at their 19" that was on display. Great store, brilliant owner, shop there and you should be treated well. The 19" TTX looked fairly good, and seemed sharp enough for me. I bought one and I took it home. Upon setup, I noticed it wasn't as sharp as I had remembered the one in the store. I was frustrated and phone tech support. They were very helpfull, but unfortunately, I was impatient and did not pay attention to the tech guy when he said, his exact words, "Hmmm, a 19" 8997 is a .25 dot pitch monitor. Its our best product and should be sharp, AS LONG AS YOU DON'T HAVE THE BRIGHTNESS AND CONTRAST PEGGED" (in other words, as long as the settings weren't highest contrast and brightness settings). I did have the Contrast and Brightness on FULL!

I missed that and so I phoned the store and took it back to them. The owner/manager at the store was very accomodating and let me plug in my monitor side-by side with the TTX I saw before I left and compare. Sure enough, mine was blurry, where theirs was not. After a long time fiddling around, I began to try to match the settings of the monitors. Sure enough, once I lowered MY TTX monitors Brightness and Contrast to match that of their monitor, my TTX looked not too bad, and was less blurry. I was able to make it look the same as the other monitor. After all this, I was just not satisfied with the sharpness. I was surprised that I was able to improve it, but it still wasn't good enough. I couldn't believe it, but the manager actually looked at me and finally said, "If you are not happy with the monitor, I'll give you your money back." I jumped at the chance. The day was December 21 2000. While there, the manager said he didn't carry Samsung because they had a horrible warranty. Oh well. here goes my huge mistake.

I bought a 900 IFT from a store in Scarborough called C & P on Kennedy on December 27 2000. Big signs posted with NO REFUNDS and I go ahead I'm so stupid! I bring it home, and there's a weird scratch on the screen or on the coating or whatever. There is a vertical line that is visible on the screen on the right side. I take it back on the 29 of DEC. The guy gives me a hard time and I have to hook up another monitor to prove it. After over an hour, he finally agrees to give me another monitor. I take it home and hook it up. OH MY GOD. I never knew what moire was before I saw it with the second 900 IFT. It was crap at all resolutions above 1024 x 768, at and below 1024 x 768 it was gross and grainy, and besides, use a 19" monitor at 1024 x 768? Why!? No tweaking would eliminate it, even while working with SAMSUNG tech support over the phone. I take it back to the store on Jan 3 2001 to get my money back. Store FLAT OUT REFUSES, but insists I can get a replacement when his supplier gets more in stock, which is fine, but i'm so pissed off, I leave with the intention of getting my money back. I call Samsung on Jan 4 2001 and the bottom line is NO CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GARANTEE. I'm pissed and the VERY RUDE AND CONDECENDING guy asks me to fax him something that day. I do, and 3 1/2 weeks later on Tuesday, Jan 30 2001, I get a call to pick up my replacement monitor. I immediately drive straight over and exchange my monitor. I bring it home and hook it up. First amazing discovery, I am almost certain I have a dud, because upon booting into windows, the screen gives off a brief but wicked bright flash! OK, maybe thats just a fluke. Next discovery, the moire I had before is all but eliminated. Moire is now longer an issue. Next discovery, I cannot, no matter how much I play with the controls, get the text to look sharp on this monitor. It is blurry, especially at the edges. Niether of the previous 900 IFT's I had within the last month were like this. It is so blurry upon boot-up that it looks like crap. Deguassing helps, but only a little. Next discovery. The monitor has an area roughly about the size of a 1.44 floppy off center in the upper left hand corner (my left facing the monitor) that has a yellow tinge to it!

I'm no fool, I realize that a monitor that can tend to have bad moire, may only have no moire by blurring the image, but thats crap as far as I'm concerned.

Bottom line, this monitor is crap too. The last monitor I saw that had a colour problem and had an occasional bright FLASH was with a Relisys 17" at work and that monitor died within 30 days and we replaced it no probs. Has worked awesome ever since.

What have I learned? Shop for a monitor at stores that have a fair return policy. Shop for monitors that have good warranty coverage and preferably a CUSTOMER SATISFACTION GARANTEE. And another thing I have leared, be patient. And I should have written a letter to Samsung Registered mail asking for a full refund and state my concerns, like the women at Consumer and customer affairs said, instead of just faxing something to them. I want my moneys worth, and so far, its not happening!!

What do I do now? Call tech support, call customer service. Tell them I am the owner of a defective monitor and get it fixed AGAIN. I actually do think there are probably good Samsung 900IFT monitors out there. I keep getting Lemons! But at this point, if Samsung won't give me my money back, I will have to sell it. I am an honest person, and if I have to sell this myself, I am not even willing to sell it to someone unless it is the absolute best example of this model of monitor.

I wonder if there are monitor companies that would take this Samsung off my hands and refund my money against one of their monitors?? I will spend 50% more on a different monitor if its from a better company!!

I want a 19" INVAR mask monitor with a diagonal dot pitch of at least .25 (or a horizontal dot pitch of .20 to .22) as long as it looks sharp.

So what do you think I should do folks? Give me sane logical advice.

[This message has been edited by ccoltas (edited 04 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ccoltas (edited 04 February 2001).]

[Topha]

according to a magazine i trust the ELSA Ecomo 530 is the best 19" monitor, so if you have some money left you should go for that one. if you have a lot of money left get an LCD 17" (you should read reviews, saves a lot of money and trouble).


as for the samsung, if you are really mean you can sell it at ebay if you have DH you might keep it to watch movies while working. or you could take it apart to see how it works (or sell it to someone who would like to do that)

[This message has been edited by Topha (edited 04 February 2001).]

[ccoltas]

A 17" LCD monitor would easily be over $2000 in Canada. I am barely willing to pay $1000 for a 21", never mind $2000 for a 17"!!

I am not going to throw away $650.00. I must get a different monitor and get my money back for this one, either through Samsung, selling this monitor, or trading it or something. I'm so pissed off, I keep making typing mistakes and have to edit these damn messages a million times. this is just an exercise for me.

I'll check out that ELSA monitor. Anyone else have any ideas? I'm looking at Hitachi, Phillips, Hansol etc. Even Viewsonic, although they seem to have abandoned high end INVAR monitors right now.

[This message has been edited by ccoltas (edited 04 February 2001).]

[FrankDC]

One of the best resources I've found is E-opinions. You'll have to wade through lots of conflicting views, since these are end-user experiences. But it'll give you an idea of what's generally good or bad:

http://www.eopinions.com/cmhd-Monitors-All

[The PIT]

Ccoltas try adjusting the refresh rate as this may help to improve the blurry text.
The discoloured area probably means the monitor has been stored where there has been a strong magnetic field. Deguassing should though remove it and in this case doesn't have seemed to work. It may take a period of time before it disappears.
You could try adjusting the tilt of the screen (Not the physical one) to see if it fixes it.
It maybe worth just for trying to turn your monitor by 90 degrees and see if that cures the problem.
The NEC I got had this problem and yet in the store it didn't. Deguasing didn't work but I had a control call called corner correction which did. A week later I accidently hit the factory default option and the problem had cured itself.

[ccoltas]

I've Degaussed it every time I use it and it has no effect, accept to slightly sharpen the blurry text. The monitor is of poor quality and inconsistent. I tried moving my PC speakers away, something I shouldn't have to do because they have never caused any problems with either of 2 14" monitors, or another 19" I had tired here. But it has no effect. The only way it has an effect is if the speaker is within 2 inches of the screen. I have them over 1 foot away on either side.

I just tried twisting the monitor but it only rotates maybe 10 degrees max (5 degrees either way). Refresh has nothing to do with it. Besides, the monitor should work as its designed, 1280 x 1024 @ 85 HZ. Thats what its at, and it ain't workin'! The yellow is annoying as it is variable and distracting. just like the blurry text.

The flash I saw, however, leads me to believe that this monitor is crap. Samsung waited just enough time for me to be now beyond the 30 day DOA replacement policy.

Dead On Arrival. In my opinion, Samsung quality is poor. I have the experience to prove it. I was even told to avoid Samsung by some store owners, and even the guy where I bought the Samsung monitor let it slip that he's had problems with Samsung monitors.

I'm not lucky!

[This message has been edited by ccoltas (edited 05 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by ccoltas (edited 05 February 2001).]

[joelau]

I have my share of lousy Samsung products.
A TV which went into servicing 5 times and recently died, a VCR that broke down after 2 yrs, and a defective piece of RDRAM.

I definately not consider buying a Samsung monitor, even if it's priced lower.

Perhaps next time you should consider a Sony monitor. Their Trinitron tube is simply the best i have seen. Great clarify & brightness.
Except it's a little poorer if comparing geometry.

Regards.

[Topha]

I have a Sony 19", and i cannot really recommend it, although its better than many other monitors, there still are better ones

[The PIT]

Ccoltas you'll have to pick it up and move it round it's worth just to see what happens. However I reckon it's more likely a crap tube.
Refresh rates are only recommended rates. Try going higher and also try going lower.
On my NEC I can adjust the colour in the corners I tried finding manual on your monitor on there website to see if it has a similar option but couldn't find it.
To be honest I think you're looking at one site warrenty replacement.


[This message has been edited by The PIT (edited 06 February 2001).]