G450's 64bit bus limits more than 3D...

[arbymo]

Oooops .. i should've read the graph carefully thanks Darin for pointing me out

Stringy; i meant the average users of the high end users
does that make any sense ?

[DentyCracker]

Darin, I think you get 0 crashes because you are using a different OS (Win98) than both Rags and the reviewer (Win2K). The Radeon is stable in Win98 from most reports, less so in Win2k, which is one of the reasons it wasn't an option for me the main reason of course being ATi

[Darin]

Yes, it is true that I have no experience with the Radeon's Win2k drivers... the only Win2k box I have has my old G400 in it. It is also true that the Win2k Radeon drivers are known for being less polished than the Win98 versions, BUT, from from the reports I've seen, the complaints about the Win2k drivers have had nothing to do with stability. They have had some issues with refresh rates & vsync in games, and some games have a big framerate hit compared to the Win98 drivers. The reviewer said he also got locks with the G450, the difference being that they were recoverable locks, vs. hard locks with the Radeon.

Win2k is very stable. I've not had problems with it locking with my G400, I don't have lock problems with my Radeon in my Win98 machine, and this review is the fist time I've seen reports of locks in Win2k due to Matrox OR ATI video cards. I think there is more going on on his computer than issues from the video cards, and in fact he admits that it is not a clean install. The point I was trying to make is that this article should not be used as a basis of driver stability of either card. ATI DOES still have some issues with their drivers, but I am not convinced that those issues include 2D stability, in either OS.

[arbymo]

the reason

ATI's overlay has two modes of operation - a high quality / high video bandwidth mode, and a lower quality mode that requires less bandwidth. The lower quality mode has been described on the forum as "fuzzy". Our drivers compute the amount of available memory bandwidth for a given display mode and refresh rate whenever there is a mode switch, and if insufficient bandwidth is available, we revert to using a lower-quality pixel doubling mode for the overlay.

read it all up at http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/010557.html
it explains everything, and why the Radeon has a high overlay performance at high res.

Well, it's a nice trick from ATI, but i guess that it went unoticed till that guy uncovered it up.

I guess not even the firing squad reviewer knows bout this, i hope someone could point him to this thread, or the other link, maybee he could clear things up in his review.

later

[Novdid]

Good link arbymo.

[JJHamster]

I bought my G450eTV mainly for the dual head feature . It replaced a ATI 128 Rage pro VIVO, with which, I had nothing but problems with the TV out - IMHO the Matrox's TV out quality is far better*. Since the Radeon does not have any form of dual head the comparison is more difficult.

* Apart from the PAL/ jerky DVD problem -damn and blast!

[Rags]

but I am not convinced that those issues include 2D stability, in either OS.

BS. ATI has acknowledged 2D stability problems in win2k.

Rags

[Darin]

Originally posted by Rags

BS. ATI has acknowledged 2D stability problems in win2k.

Rags

The term "BS" suggests that you believe that there is something deceptive in my comment. I think you may have me confused with some type of "fan-boy" that gets all defensive when it's suggested that my hardware of choice might have some flaws. That is not the case, and in fact I'm constantly perplexed at that type of behavior, which can be seen here as well as at Rage3D, or any other computer hardware forum. In the end, we are all consumers, and refusing to admit there are issues with any particular piece of hardware, or the support practices of the manufactuer is quite counter productive. The more vocal we consumers are about problems with products we have purchased, the more pressure the manufactuers have to correct them, as bad publicity can mean reduced sales.

Actually, I'm quite surprised to hear that ATI has admitted to 2D stability problems. One of the criticisms I have expressed in the past about ATI has been their lack of disclosure regarding any known issues in their driver releases, as well as fixes. I certainly haven't seen that many complaints about 2D issues, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. From my perspective, it seems like there are issues that are much more common. I'll state again, I have NOT used the Radeon on Win2K, and have stated that from the beginning because that's certainly somewhat of a disqualification when it comes to my opinion of those drivers. It is certainly quite possible there are issues there I'm not aware of and based on your last statement apparently there are.

BUT, again, I still don't think that this review is the best source to judge stability. The reviewer also had locking issues with the G450 (albeit, recoverable). He had locking problems with two out of two video cards, and Win2k is a relatively stable platform. I still believe there are issues that he is having that are not soley due to the cards, and not very common to MOST users.

[LAMFDTK]

I think you may have me confused with some type of "fan-boy" that gets all defensive when it's suggested that my hardware of choice might have some flaws.

There are many Fan-Boys here!! Careful... They call them BetaBoys....If you have an opinion that isn't "Matrox correct" then your mother is a Junkie and a slut.

Bwaahahhahahhh

[Rags]

Originally posted by LAMFDTK


There are many Fan-Boys here!! Careful... They call them BetaBoys....If you have an opinion that isn't "Matrox correct" then your mother is a Junkie and a slut.

Bwaahahhahahhh

Well if you consider someone who uses various types of video cards a fan boy, then more power to you. Just because we test matrox software doesn't make us fan boys

Rags

[Rags]

Oh, and your mother buys dope on my corner, and my neighbor paid her five bucks for a quickie

Rags

[Casey Jones]

Sounds like Franky poo must have a bit of jealousy going on....

[Inray]

Hi...

Like it or not there is no other choice than Matrox for people who want the most stable driver and exceptional 2D signal quality / speed.
I'm an old Matrox user, using quite many G400max and G450 with high res 21" CRT monitors (>= 1600 x 1200 x 100). After some months with the excellent G400max i tried to move to ATI Radeon as i had read many possitive comments on their 2D quality and speed.
That was my fault. I cannot understand people who say that Radeon is close to Matrox on 2D. Are they totally blind ?
After a month or so with the worst driver set (ATI) i ever used and the most unstable card (Radeon 64MB DDR/VIVO) i came back to my trusty Matrox cards.
If you want more details on my ATI adventure read my post

http://forums.murc.ws/showthread.php?s=&threadid=22141

Nowdays i still use G400max/450 and i'm very happy with them. I never play games but i use them for serious desktop work as well as CAD/CAM, programming and drafting. I never found better 2D signal though i own two 3DLABS GVX equipped computers.

Matrox are not very fast on 3D games or 3D rendering CAD but their speed and quality is the best among most cards i used the last years.

BTW i'm not a Matrox fan just because i like them. I just don't want any problems or crashes for my everyday work.

regards...