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The reason for parhelia's low/decreased clock speed?

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  • The reason for parhelia's low/decreased clock speed?

    It appears that the #1 reason for the Parhelia's somewhat disappointing 3D-performance is the low clock speed of the board. The clock speed has even decreased from that of the alpha/beta boards! Why would matrox want to do this?

    The usual explanation is that Matrox had to decrease the size of the heatsink to comply with the AGP physical specs. But surely they could have used an AGP-compliant heatsink that was a little less spartan? Look at the GF4 in its various forms! Did matrox even bother to use a thermal interface material between the chip and the heatsink?

    I think the true reason for the low clock speeds might be a different one: power consumption. According to the AGP 2.0 specs, the maximum power consumption for the different voltage lines is:
    3.3V * 6A = 19.8 W
    5V * 2A = 10W
    12V * 1A = 12W
    (see ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...oads/agp20.pdf )

    This gives a total of 41.8 Watts. In addition to this another 8 Amperes are available on the data lines, operating at 1.5 or 3.3V. However, the AGP2.0 document says that the actual currents on these lines will be smaller thatn 2 Amperes. So the current on these data lines can thus burn up 3 to 7 Watts. Everything adds up to around 45 Watts of power MAXIMUM!

    The Parhelia in its current form uses 36 Watts running 3DMark 2001 SE Pro! (tested by the german tecchannel : http://www.tecchannel.de/hardware/907/39.html ). I imagine the Parhelia being quite busy running 3DMark, but its features aren't used to the fullest, so the 36 Watt figure is probably not even the maximum power the card can draw.

    As far as I know the power consumption of a chip increases both when you increase the clock speed (linearly?) and the voltage (quadratically?). This leads me to think that Matrox had to decrease the clock speed and/or voltage of the Parhelia to remain within the AGP ELECTRICAL specs. They have to, because the one thing Matrox really cannot afford is risking its reputation as a producer of high quality, stable cards.


    Suppose all this is true, how could Matrox get around this problem - they HAVE TO if they want to introduce a 256MB or MAX version. I see 3 possibilities:
    1) Use an AGP PRO connector, with the risk of excluding a large customer base.
    2) Equip the boards with an extra connector that sucks power directly form the power suppy. The extra connectors/circuitry would probably increase the board price even more.
    3) Perform a die shrink, so the voltage can be decreased while the clock speed increases. This will take a while, though.


    Does anyone else have any ideas on this?

  • #2
    wow that is some good thinking there!

    i think the low clock speed is not a result of any one factor, but in a chip as large and complex as parhelia there are bound to be some complications
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    • #3
      a good, well thaught out piece.

      would adding an external power connector not invalidate the AGP2 slot specs anyway? if you are doing that, you might have thaught that they may as well blown it completely and added the bigger heat sink which would have required the PCI slot as well. This card is not designed for a server rack, so blowing that spec might not have mattered anyway...

      Regards
      RedRed
      Dont just swallow the blue pill.

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      • #4
        Since this is a professional card, matrox could have easily utilized the AGP Pro slot.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by roadie
          i think the low clock speed is not a result of any one factor, but in a chip as large and complex as parhelia there are bound to be some complications
          That might be true, but why would they decrease the clock speed after they have been (successfully) running higher clocked boards for some time?

          Originally posted by RedRed
          would adding an external power connector not invalidate the AGP2 slot specs anyway?
          I don't think the use of an extra internal connector is prohibited by the specs. That would be feasible, I guess?

          Originally posted by isochar
          Since this is a professional card, matrox could have easily utilized the AGP Pro slot.
          I guess the 256MB version is really aimed at pro's. I wouldn't be surprised if they did outfit it with an AGP PRO connector. Wouldn't help me though, cause I'm stuck with my 'old' AGP4X plug on a 3-month-old motherboard....

          Last edited by simpy2; 28 June 2002, 05:24.

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          • #6
            Haig from Matrox has kindly given us the bits we need to work this out:

            Although he has not confirmed the speed of the Alpha boards, he has confirmed that the speed was dropped, as the production heatsink was not effective enough to run the chip at those speeds. He has told us that with the boards as they are, putting a larger heatsink on would allow the chip to run 20MHz higher and still be stable. He has also confirmed that the chip will run faster again if the voltage is increased, but that this would reduce the life of the chip.

            From this, we can assume that:

            1) The Alpha board were running at least 240MHz
            2) If the boards were running higher than 240MHz, they were either unstable, or the voltage was higher
            3) It should be relatively simple for us to get the extra 20MHz by adding more cooling.
            4) If we were prepared to risk increasing the voltage to the chip, the Parhelia would truly kick ass.

            Small voltage tweaks shouldn't be too dangerous, as long as we knew what we doing. Many of us (myself included) have been tweaking processor voltages for ages, to achieve a stable overclock. Even halving the life of a chip, that would normally outlive its usefulness by 3x isn't such a big sacrifice.

            There are heaps of links on the web with instructions on how to voltage tweak Geforce cards. Anyone with decent electronic knowledge (myself NOT included, but Simpy2 sounds like a good candidate) should be able to adapt this procedure to work with a Parhelia. A large part of Matrox's problems with conforming to AGP specs were simply due to the physical size of the heatsink - I'd doubt that the electrical specifications would have caused them serious problems. That being the case, I am surprised that they didn't try for a slightly better solution than the budget cooler they have strapped to the thing. Look at any decent Geforce4, and you'll know what I'm talking about.

            So, I guess the big question is: who wants to be the first to risk their $400 card, to get the ultimate performer?

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Cheesekeeper
              [...]..A large part of Matrox's problems with conforming to AGP specs were simply due to the physical size of the heatsink - I'd doubt that the electrical specifications would have caused them serious problems. That being the case, I am surprised that they didn't try for a slightly better solution than the budget cooler they have strapped to the thing. Look at any decent Geforce4, and you'll know what I'm talking about.
              That's exactly why I thought they might have other problems than just the heatsink size! Why wouldn't they spend a little bit more on each card (it's nothing compared to $400) to give it a decent heat sink if that would improve the benchmarks? That means better reviews ==> more sales! I'm still not completely convinved that the power consumption wasn't be a problem.

              That doesn't mean that the board would crash immediately if you increase the speed a bit. I can imagine most motherboards can handle a few percent overcurrent on the AGP connector. However, Matrox cannot officially support this. They have a reputation to care about. Even now they are warning potential buyers that they need a 300W power supply!

              PS - Cheesekeeper, I'm afraid I would not not be the one to be trusted to voltage-mod a $400 graphics board. I'll just stick with the theory....

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