Matrox and Parhelia questions?

[High_Jumbllama]

Originally posted by mort

Secondly i want to add that the word 'NDA' can be banned on this forum. It's really getting annoying to hear every admin and bb about the NDA's, like its some sort of special word which makes them better!?. Also as stated earlier in this thread don't think you're any better or gain more respect because you've got a Parhelia.

Really, people keep asking questions about things that are or may be under NDA. Perhaps they should just be smucks and not type anything when asked a question instead. BTW, I was kidding in that last sentence.

Driver NDA's are load of crap imo. If matrox suddenly succeeds in getting a driver that boost performance to da max they are crazy not to put it out immediately. So the only explanation I can give on those NDA's that the drivers still aren't getting any better.

Drivers take time. Stability and functionality is more important than speed. Why would you want a card that crashes faster?

OH, and

NDA

[mort]

I think you're right but this means the parhelia is going to miss the boat...

Since its the first one to support it, the performance is bad. People who are going to buy those cards if the games come out. At that time the other cards will be there (R300/NV30), and people will gonna buy those cards since they offer better performance with those new features. Sure you can give matrox the credit for giving these features but they will be empty handed...

[Cobos]

Cheesekeeper: I partly agree with you that you need newer games to really push the parhelia. But that still means I'm a bit worried about the performance it is giving in some synthetic benchmarks (like the multitexture one in 3Dmark) where after the specs it should give a much higher score.... and of course that both Doom3 and UT2003 (I know Doom3 wont be here yet by a long shoot) runs OK, but nothing spectacular on P. I'm hoping that it is something which could explain this ??

Cobos

[Cheesekeeper]

Originally posted by mort
I think you're right but this means the parhelia is going to miss the boat...

Since its the first one to support it, the performance is bad. People who are going to buy those cards if the games come out. At that time the other cards will be there (R300/NV30), and people will gonna buy those cards since they offer better performance with those new features. Sure you can give matrox the credit for giving these features but they will be empty handed...

Yup,as I said in an earlier thread - I think the timing is a bit off. The Parhelia can't offer enough in the way of gaming features useable now to justify its price (as a gaming card). By the time the features can be used, it will be competing with a new line of contenders. I would have thought they would be better waiting - spend more time refining the silicon and drivers, so it could be launched "in a better light". Unless of course Matrox is still holding some aces - drivers offering a significant boost, higher clocked card versions etc. We're all used to the fact that we won't even hear rumors until they are ready to release. I used to resent that - but I think I'm starting to understand why it's necessary.......

[Cheesekeeper]

Originally posted by Cobos
Cheesekeeper: I partly agree with you that you need newer games to really push the parhelia. But that still means I'm a bit worried about the performance it is giving in some synthetic benchmarks (like the multitexture one in 3Dmark) where after the specs it should give a much higher score.... and of course that both Doom3 and UT2003 (I know Doom3 wont be here yet by a long shoot) runs OK, but nothing spectacular on P. I'm hoping that it is something which could explain this ??

Cobos

That worries me too - but MAtrox have never shown themselves to be stupid. Well, ok, there was the whole G550 thing, but I'm over it now

I refuse to belive that they would announce their return to the gaming market, and release a card they knew wouldn't put up a good show against the competitors. I just can't help feeling they haven't finished yet.

As for the benchmarks, even the multi-texturing tests are designed around GF4 and Radeon cards. Can we confirm that the software is actually using all of the shaders? Based on performance, it seems like it isn't........

[frankymail]

Don’t worry : don’t forget that all tests in 3Dmarks 2001 SE are only using 2 texturing units per pipeline, so Parhelia’s additional 2 texturing units are wasted. The only exception is in the Multi-texturing test where all texturing units are used, and where Parhelia really torches the competition, even at 220 MHz… (I’m sure we have to thank the extra memory bandwidth for this too.) BTW, have you guys heard that the “gamer” version of 3Dlabs P10 that will be used in Creative cards will be call the Vizyx? I prefer the name Parhelia (and even more Parhelia 2 )

Also, the shaders don’t have anything to do in the fillrate; they are the “lighting” part of “T&L”, which include both pixel operations (pixel shader) and vertex operation (vertex shader). However, T&L isn’t used anymore since the industry is now using, starting with the GeForce 3, programmable pixel/vertex shaders.

[Ant]

Believe me it's getting far more annoying listening to people whining and bleeting on about those that are under NDAs. Who are all these admins you talk about as far as I see it there is only one and that's me.

As I stated in another thread if people keep attacking the beta testers etc like this because of their NDAs and restrictions placed on what they can say I'm going to start taking action as it is ruining the atmosphere in these forums and that is something I will not tolerate, so like it or lump it just shut up. You attack them when they don't say anything and attack them when they do, what the hell do you expect them to do?

This really is the last time time I'm going to say this in future I will simply delete the posts and if the trolls persist they will be banned.

Originally posted by mort

Secondly i want to add that the word 'NDA' can be banned on this forum. It's really getting annoying to hear every admin and bb about the NDA's, like its some sort of special word which makes them better!?. Also as stated earlier in this thread don't think you're any better or gain more respect because you've got a Parhelia.

[Kruzin]

Originally posted by mort
Secondly i want to add that the word 'NDA' can be banned on this forum. It's really getting annoying to hear every admin and bb about the NDA's, like its some sort of special word which makes them better!?. Also as stated earlier in this thread don't think you're any better or gain more respect because you've got a Parhelia.

No, the "word" NDA cannot be banned on this forum. Several mods, and many more users here than you are aware of are under NDA. It happens to be part of the computer buiz, and it's not going away. If you can't grasp the concept, or if it bothers you that much, you are invited not to read these forums.

Driver NDA's are load of crap imo. If matrox suddenly succeeds in getting a driver that boost performance to da max they are crazy not to put it out immediately. So the only explanation I can give on those NDA's that the drivers still aren't getting any better.

The only load of crap here is your logic. If Matrox does come up with a driver that improves performance, it will go through the same SQA procedures every other driver build does. They would be crazy to push it out the door without proper testing just because it gives a better 3DMark score. Your "only explanation" just goes to show how little you know about the industry.

btw, im reading this forum for the last couple of months (4-5) so don't think im just a n00b because this is my first post. This is just something i had to say.

I don't care if you've read every post on the forums for the last 5 years. You're a "n00b" to us. And a clueless one at that. Talking trash isn't going to change that for you. In fact, it will garauntee that you will never make it beyond "n00b" if you keep it up. Just something I had to say.

[Greebe]

Is that really you, Mortimer Schnerd?!

[mort]

lol at your comments. i really didn't expect such pathetic comments. And saying that a revolutionary driver just has to wait a few weeks to come out is bs. Maybe wishfull thinking of you guys that you have some sort of 'power'.

And if you're such annoyed by questions which regard NDA's to be broken, THEN DONT REACT. You're always mumbling the same old story about NDA's which is getting real old. But probably you'll say that people who want answers need to get an explanation why do don't get any replies yada yada yada. Maybe setting up some sort of fixed thread on top of this forum which explain some things. But hey comming from a n00b like me that just sounds stupid LOL

Just stay in your little worlds i dont care

[Kruzin]

Originally posted by mort
lol at your comments. i really didn't expect such pathetic comments. And saying that a revolutionary driver just has to wait a few weeks to come out is bs. Maybe wishfull thinking of you guys that you have some sort of 'power'.

I never said there was any "revolutionary driver" coming out. I was responding to your comment about how Matrox should push out a driver immidiatly just because it benchmarked fast. They don't work that way. Any driver goes through an SQA process before being released. If that driver has major bugs, it's not going to be released no matter how fast it runs a benchmark. Some of the fastest drivers I have tested never made it to public release.

And if you're such annoyed by questions which regard NDA's to be broken, THEN DONT REACT. You're always mumbling the same old story about NDA's which is getting real old. But probably you'll say that people who want answers need to get an explanation why do don't get any replies yada yada yada. Maybe setting up some sort of fixed thread on top of this forum which explain some things. But hey comming from a n00b like me that just sounds stupid LOL

When you registered for this forum, you where directed to the rules and "forum survival guide", which you agreed to read before signing up.
The forum survival guide clearly explains how things work around here, including the roles the beta testers play here, and how their NDA applies.
As you're the 'n00b' here, it's not your place to tell me how to post, who to respond to, and who not to. It is YOU who should not be reacting to OUR postings. This is the way things have worked here for years, and your little opinion is not going to change that.

[Ant]

I asked he didn't listen he's gone.