Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Time to say goodbye.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Time to say goodbye.

    You think Matrox will be resurrected by a charitable buyer?

    You think some miraculous advancement or new product will save their ass?

    Think again.

    You want to know why I've been cynical of Matrox and their Parhelia release? Because I saw Rendition suffering a similar fate in 1998. I watched in the front row as Rendition slowly dissappeared off the face of the earth.

    History Lesson

    Rendition was a privately owned company much like Matrox. Rendition, like Matrox, had a history of breaking new ground, including the first 2D/3D combo card with acceptable gaming performance ( the v1000 ), as well as the first 3D-accelerated version of Quake ported specifically for that card. They comfortably took 2nd place performance-wise to 3DFX by managing to undercut the price of the Voodoo Graphics cards by around $100.

    But when the memory market crashed in '97, 3DFX no longer became a higher-priced alternative, there was suddenly little market separation, and 3DFX was the definitive performance winner. About the same time, Rendition's next-generation v2100 and v2200 chipsets were hitting delays, and in the end the silicon and drivers had such mind-blowing limitations that the NEXT-GENERATION v2200 STILL took 2nd-place to the original 3DFX Voodoo Graphics in many games. It was so bad that, after making only one card with Rendition, Diamond steadfastly refused to do future business with them.

    The summer of 1998 left the spotlight glowing white-hot. Everyone and their dog was announcing "Voodoo Killers" ( TNT, PVRSG, Savage3D, and even Matrox announded and delivered their first 3D card, the G200 ). At Rendition, things were pretty quiet. Bug fixes for the many obvious flaws of the v2x00 series, both 2D and 3D, were slow if they made it out at all. Unbeknowest to the world, by this time Rendition was on the way to insolvency, and had cut about half their staff from the year before.

    To distract people from the fact that Rendition wasn't really innovating, let alone even addressing the problems on their current chips, Rendition launched the "Conspiracy Project". Some of you may remember this, it was basicially a v2200 chip paired with a Fujitsu Pinolite geometry processor, an early attempt at consumer on-card T&L. Rendition also created a version of the v2200 graphics chip with embedded memory. These were both proof-of concept, but obviously they were about 6 months behind, as everyone was announcing cards while Rendition was in the early development stage of their next-gen part.

    In the fall Rendition went into talks to merge with Micron Technologies. Micron, from the very beginning, intended to leverage Rendition's experience with embedded memory, and never promised to maintain the graphics business. Rendition attempted to force the issue on Micron by introducing their next-generation "Rendition Multimedia Accelerator" in a series of eye-grabbing "Fact Of The Week" articles.

    Mirror of the original FOTW articles ( Rendition's site no longer exists )



    The "RMA" <chuckle chuckle> was never released, and although it looked impressive on paper, it probably never would have met the claims, if the v2x00 was anything to judge by. They had a graphics chip ready to go, and a next-gen chip in the works, but they were faced with cooler heads. Micron absorbed the useful parts and put them back on track. End of story.

    THE POINT IS CHILDREN

    No matter who buys Matrox, they will probably not continue as normal. Companies go into insolvency because they have poor management and spread themselves too thin or become too dependent. Matrox has done the same as Rendition did, as a private company BOTH were entitled to not disclose their financials. But just like Rendition, we saw the signs.

    Look at what Matrox REALLY has.

    They have a Fab? Hmmmm, maybe Matrox is more worthless than I ever believed. Rendition was a fabless chip company, and they got ripped to shreds after the MT acquisition. There just wasn't anything worth keeping except the embedded memory expertise.

    Other than that, they have nothing. Their R&D is a year behind, and from what I hear, even their legendary analog engineers ( responsible for the excellent timing and crisp output ) were fired over 2 years ago, before the G450.

    No petition, no distraction tactics, no nothing will change this. Petitions don't create graphics chips. Just be happy, AT LEAST MATROX GOT TO RELEASE THEIR "VOODOO KILLER", as much a dissappointment as it's been. Rendition never even got the chance

    The only good thing is, the one and only reason for Matrox's strong following is about to disappear. It's called DVI-D folks, and it will make high-quality on-card RAMDACs and filters obsolete. Flat-panels don't need them at all, and conceivably CRTs could use DVI to move the analog conversion closer to the tube, reducing outside interference. Most highend CRTs are already shipping with DVI-A interfaces, and it won't be long before they take the next step and make the graphics card just an ordinary pixel pusher.

    Just thought I'd save you all months of whining and moaning. Flame me if you want, it's all utterly useless.
    Last edited by defaultuser; 27 October 2002, 08:34.
    what you say !!

  • #2
    Matrox's main advantage, unlisted above, that will remain is their excellent multimonitor implementation.....something not yet even approached by the competition, but something that may be in the future....
    Let us return to the moon, to stay!!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by K6-III
      Matrox's main advantage, unlisted above, that will remain is their excellent multimonitor implementation.....something not yet even approached by the competition, but something that may be in the future....
      Incidentally you'll find a lot of companies are leveraging their intellectual property and services division over mainstram hardware these days, but transformations cost money. IBM learned this the hard way, as did many other traditional all-in-one companies that have had to become more specialized in the last decade.

      But the argument above still stands, and that is Matrox as you know it will not be preserved.

      I personally find it hard to believe that Matrox could sell their Multimon expertise outside the professional marketplace in any case. To be perfectly honest, just like "Motion Compensation", Multimonitor support has become a "feature" rather than a true selling point for mainstream cards. The vast majority of people do not make use of it, so it will remain a niche market. Most current chip makers would rather stick with their existing limited-yet-servicable implementations than spend more money on a feature that doesn't sell boards.

      And as 3dlabs learned, even supplying the professional market is no guarantee of success.
      Last edited by defaultuser; 26 October 2002, 21:08.
      what you say !!

      Comment


      • #4
        another thing he forgot to menton was this is only one division that's being affected. Their video editing and others are not... who going to buy them? Nobody, cuz they aren't for sale.

        If you want to use Diamond as an exapmle as to why Rendition died, fine. But remember this, Diamond was and in my mind will always be a truely cruddy company that did nothing but cause other businesses problems. They had sleazy marketing tactics, virtually no support and rarely updated their drivers even when the chip maker did.

        Let me add that Diamond had to change their name something like 8 years ago because of a MB they made called the Diamond Fastbus... the first OC friendly MB made. It was high priced and greatly flawed... I know because they sent me 3 replacements under warranty and all were buggered up... not to mention they charged me for every single one costing me not only time, many headaches and lost data but over a $1000 worth of MB's in the process. Yeah it was illegal, but nothing I could do to resolve back then.

        Will say that I celebrated the day they got out of the PC business and hope the bastards never return.
        "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

        "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

        Comment


        • #5
          Greebe, you are throwing a Red Herring into the ring.

          My observation was simply to show that Diamond, a company known for their long-term relationships with successful companies, quickly dropped Rendition after only one card ( the Sealth II s220 ). The reason behind this was the combination of the 6-month product delay, the buggy 2D core, and the slow bug fixes that left Stealth II s220 owners in an uproar.

          Diamond maintained long-term ( multiple-chip generation ) relationships with S3, 3DFX, Nvidia, Weitek, SiS, and many more.

          You want to talk about Diamond? Rendition has a long history of losing manufacturers.

          Out of all their manufacturers for the Verite 1000 -

          Canopus - Total 3D,
          Sierra - Screamin' 3D,
          Creative Labs - Graphics Blaster PCI,
          Intergraph - Intense 3D,
          I/O Magic - Magic Video
          Miro - VRX Royal Flush ( almost forgot them... )

          As successful as the v1000 series was, NOT ONE OF THEM picked up the v2x00 series. Take that for what you will. You don't die because of the mistakes you make today, you die because you continue to make the same mistake for 2 years. Matrox is faced with this same problem, and just like Rendition NOBODY outside the company could truely see it coming.

          Truth be told, Rendition has a LONG history of screwups. I simply mentioned Diamond because it's one of the most obvious, and people don't want to read a novel here. Well, everyone but yourself. But I'm always happy to share
          Last edited by defaultuser; 27 October 2002, 08:24.
          what you say !!

          Comment


          • #6
            ----> this guy thinks he's talkin to some new kid on the block
            "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

            "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

            Comment


            • #7
              Diamond went bust in the graphics arena because they had the absolute worst support, the nastiest drivers (far below even what Rendition had released) rarely updated them (if ever) and crappy BIOS's not just for their Rendition based cards but every manufactures chip they used.

              BTW Diamond wasn't the only company that used the Verite series chips, there were many others. Not to mention they themselves failed every Gchip maker on the planet...

              Diamond originally tried to be a PC vendor (OEM), but that failed, changed the company name, then moved on to try again and fell flat on their face yet again. In the end they had to give up barely skirting around many lawsuits and not to forget bankruptsy twice.

              Use a better example next time
              Last edited by Greebe; 26 October 2002, 22:29.
              "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

              "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

              Comment


              • #8
                Since when did Matrox have a fab?
                I think you mean factory? Like 3dfx's Jurez plant.

                Comment


                • #9
                  hehe nope
                  "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

                  "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    damn... and i thought it was just me who thought that diamonds drivers (and, also, their piece of software that poped up a menu whenever you left clicked on an empty spot on the desktop...) sucked ass...

                    the problem with DVI is that the specifications limit output to 1920x1440 (iirc)... that does put out the high resolution part of it... you are not gonna convince the manufacturers of high end CRT's to use it... in addition it will raise costs on the CRT's because they will have to start incorporating the conversion circuitry... most graphics card (including the Parhelia) cannot do more than 1600x1200 on a DVI output. that is the second bullet in the corpse of the idea of using DVI for high end CRT's... because of the cost of DVI LCD's and CRT's it is just not going to become the major thing for quite some time...

                    in addition, there is something to be said about the quality of the picture that the card produces in the framebuffer, not just the quality of the signal going from the framebuffer to the display device...
                    Last edited by DGhost; 26 October 2002, 23:52.
                    "And yet, after spending 20+ years trying to evolve the user interface into something better, what's the most powerful improvement Apple was able to make? They finally put a god damned shell back in." -jwz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      actually DGhost the IBM P260 (crt) monitor I just ordered has it and that's last year's model!

                      Also the P drivers now support upto 1920x1200 res (strange res to be sure @16:10 aspect ratio... yeah I know the Sony GDM-FW900 is that
                      "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

                      "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Greebe, do you have some sort of personal vendetta with Diamond?

                        Sure, I could list most if not all the v2x00 manufacturers.

                        Diamond Stealth II ( cheap and overclockable )
                        Hercules Thriller 3D ( lots of features, A-grade chips )
                        Genoa V-Raptor ( Used lower-clocked B-grade v2200 chips, cheap )
                        Jazz Outlaw 3D ( Bonnie & Clyde ) - the dual AGP/PCI card

                        Now, Jazz never did anyone any favors, they were worse than Diamond with the updates, but the Outlaw 3D was simply a good seller because it was cheap and could be placed in any PC at a time when AGP was just becoming popular.

                        Genoa was always decent about support, as was Hercules.

                        Jazz Multimedia went belly-up. Genoa died off too. Hercules still exists, but only because of the brand recognition. Hercules, in truth, dug itself a deep hole. The company is now part of Guillemot.

                        The point is any company that has no control over it's destiny is free game in this market. When you depend on others for chips you have no control. You can be damn good at it or terrible at it, the end is the same - markets collapse and consolidate, and what's useable is kept, the rest tossed.

                        Matrox is lucky enough to control their own destiny, and they have, however they've taken some serious wrong turrns. Now, if you're still mulling over Diamond, well, you could always start your own thread. This one's taken.
                        what you say !!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Greebe: they unlocked above 1600x1200 in the beta drivers? i remember reading that and i thought that it supported higher, but i couldn't find anything on the Matrox site that said as such. cool to know tho..

                          i know CRT's have been shipping w/ DVI ports on them for quite some time.. gotta love that...
                          "And yet, after spending 20+ years trying to evolve the user interface into something better, what's the most powerful improvement Apple was able to make? They finally put a god damned shell back in." -jwz

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I guess you can't see the forest from the trees either... nor do you realise that M doesn't have a fab of their own. Nor do you have any personal insight into the company. What you're stating is pure speculation on your part but you also want us to believe that what your saying is fact when it most certinly is not.
                            "Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -- Dr. Seuss

                            "Always do good. It will gratify some and astonish the rest." ~Mark Twain

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am with Greebe on that one! Matrox vs. Rendition+Diamond comparison does not represent actual situation. Don't forget that matrox exist for 26 years now and they are not limited to the graphic market since they have two other profitable divisions.

                              IMHO, Matrox won't be resurrected by an investor/buyer but Matrox won't die either.

                              edit: Typo.
                              Last edited by Mafz; 27 October 2002, 00:25.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X