Parhelia. PCI- X

[Fluff]

Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have a parhelia based on the PCI-EXPRESS standard rather than the AGP8x standard in the long run. Seeing as alot of future systems will be using PCI- EXPRESS.

AFAIK PCI-EXPRESS is serial with greater power ~50w, and AGP is parallel, BUT would the added latency pose performance problems for a graphics card, even if the bandwidth is similar / more.

[Wombat]

Re: Parhelia. PCI-EXPRESS

Originally posted by Fluff
Wouldn't it be more beneficial to have a parhelia based on the PCI-EXPRESS standard rather than the AGP8x standard in the long run. Seeing as alot of future systems will be using PCI- EXPRESS.

AFAIK PCI-EXPRESS is serial with greater power ~50w, and AGP is parallel, BUT would the added latency pose performance problems for a graphics card, even if the bandwidth is similar / more.

No, not really. Why make a card for a standard that, although cool, will not be mainstream for another year or more?

Also, why do you assume that there is added latency?

[Wombat]

Also, you have one subject titled "PCI-X" and one "PCI-Express." That's a good sign that you haven't done your homework. Those are two completely different protocols.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

I think some versions of the medical parhelia boards are based on PCI-X...

edit: and of course no PCI-express yet...

[Wombat]

That's entirely possible. PCI-X isn't much more than PCI, and you can strip out AGP-specific behavior to get something pretty much compatible with PCI.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

However, I thought PCI-sxpress is a pretty different story AFAIK... i thought it uses serial protocols... unless i am mistaken... please fill me in / correct me if i am completely off.

[Wombat]

Yes, PCI-Express (previously known as 3GIO) is <I>very</I> different. It's almost more like HyperTransport in a way. The physical implementation is robust enough that it can handle distances and noise well, so computers are less likely to be one big ole' box. The protocol allows for some very exciting peripheral use. Imagine hooking your computer up to your buddy's computer across the room, and being able to treat his RAID card like it were your own.

We've talked about Express before, search around for a lot more discussion. Intel has a starter page: http://developer.intel.com/technolog...ress/index.htm

[Fluff]

Wombat I couldn't change the thread title. PCI-X and PCI-EXPRESS are different.

My assumprtion on latency was based on an DDR - RDRAM (parallel - serial) comparison, which I admit was a bit stupid. Just thought by the time matrox shifts all those Parhelias, PCI EXPRESS will probably be a standard, and it would not be beneficial doing a AGP 8x version seeing as there is little or no performance increase.

Before you all jump down my throat I appreciate the fact that the revised P - AGP 8X if it will ever come out apparently fix banding.

[Chrono_Wanderer]

http://www.3dlabs.com/whatsnew/pressreleases/pr03/03-02-18-pci.htm

News from 3dlabs: they are adopting PCI-Express

[Fluff]

About PCI Express
PCI Express is a low-cost, highly scalable, I/O interconnect technology that can be used to replace existing PCI, AGP and other bus systems. This third generation technology currently runs at 250MBps per lane in either direction, providing 16GBps bandwidth in a 32-lane configuration. The PCI Express architecture provides I/O connectivity for graphics solutions while leveraging the recent increases in memory and processor subsystems. PCI-SIG is the Special Interest Group that owns and manages the PCI Express specification as an open industry standard.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Fluff


My assumprtion on latency was based on an DDR - RDRAM (parallel - serial) comparison, which I admit was a bit stupid. Just thought by the time matrox shifts all those Parhelias, PCI EXPRESS will probably be a standard, and it would not be beneficial doing a AGP 8x version seeing as there is little or no performance increase.

That's the thing, RDRAM is just a shitty technology for system RAM, it's not the serial vs. parallel nature that's to blame. I think we'll see PCI-Express around in the near future, but it won't be abundant. Also, since 3GIO does a <I>very</I> good job of allowing other protocols to run on top of it, it's more likely that you'll see AGP slots that run AGP cards, but are actually 3GIO connections.

[rylan]

nod.. I think you'll see 3GIO as the backbone of the pci to cpu bus, with standard pci and agp protocols running on top of it.

As mentioned several times, PCI-X is a whole differant thing... and in my opinion is kind of a joke, since its load dependant (doesn't share bandwidth, so you put two cards and your max speed to each is 1/2)

[Fluff]

I thought it was only load dependand if you didn't have a controller for each slot.
Do you think we will ever see an external graphics card? Say embedded into a screen?

[Wombat]

PCI-X is actually quite nice, especially since the configurations I've worked with have a 1 controller/slot setup, interfaced to a ROPES bus. So, full bandwidth for the RAID, full for the ultra-fast 10Gb Ethernet.....

[Kurt]

PCI 64bits is also better than what we all have...