millenium II? mystique? millenium? (confused)

[Nowhere]

There's a possibility that I'll be getting some 17', so I think I'd like to use my current 15' as a second monitor for some time (it's capable of 1024x768@85Hz). But since I have also only G400 16mb SH, I think that getting one of the above pci cards is the best (since the second display will be only for 2d stuff) cheap option.
So...are there any differences worth mentioning in this case between the three cards above? (apart from the thing that I need at least 4mb version for 1024x768@32bpp, I think, right?)
The price differences are negligible for sure (it's totally random which card will score higher price now ), so I think that at least one time I can go for the best
Unfortunatelly there isn't much information on this subject...but I think that millenium II is for some reason the best one, right? (but there's another problem. I've seen cards labelled as millenium II that were very different, even when it comes to graphics chip packaging . Older and newer models?)

And another thing - is it possible to have hardware overlay on second display like this one? (I think I find AVS from winamp amusing in overlay mode with desktop in overlay color, but it'll be more visible on second monitor with IM, irc, winamp etc. than on the primary one)

What about eDualHead? Does it work with two different cards? (I think that history on the side of the second monitor can be very usefull for me)

[Kruzin]

The Mill2 is the best of those choices. More powerful, able to upgrade to more memory.
Edualhead software is not going to work on such a setup, however.
You migh concider upgrading you G400 to dualhead for more flexible DH usages....

http://shopmatrox.com/europe/products/datasheet.asp?ID=36

Any way you do it, you're not going to get hardware overlay on the secondary display unless you move up to a P series card.

[UtwigMU]

So...are there any differences worth mentioning in this case between the three cards above? (apart from the thing that I need at least 4mb version for 1024x768@32bpp, I think, right?)

Generally there are, but not significant, generally you'll not get HW overlay on them and won't be able to play games.

WRT to memory size, Untill about 7 hours ago I was using G400 16MB SH and Millennium PCI 2MB. The Millennium could do 1152x864@16-bit colour.

Otherwise, I was searching local online auctions for Matrox PCI cards with 4 or 8MB of RAM for about half a year with little luck.

The problem with different colour depth desktops was that you would get taskbar and systray icons in 256 colour mode, but desktop and quicklaunch icons would be in high-colour.

Otherwise games worked on G400 and I could IRC at the same time on Millennium.

Make sure the thing has 220 or better RAMDAC (to power 1600x1200@85Hz.

I was using powerdesk 2.82 for Win2k that supports both Millennium and G400. It was just smoooow. I could plop Autocad across 2 screens and do a continous 3d orbit of gourad shaded object with Millennium in 16-bit and G400 in 32-bit mode.

Just make sure you disable netmeeting service and Ultramon mirror, as they might get enumerated as displays and come before real displays, thus causing conflicts with powerdesk. Otherwise, if you have problems, I had great experience with Matrox tech support. Do a search for my threads in Matrox tech support.

Also make sure you install special dualhead for G400/G450 if you're using Win2k. Otherwise, you'll have huge problems (movies, games, 3D apps).

And another thing - is it possible to have hardware overlay on second display like this one? (I think I find AVS from winamp amusing in overlay mode with desktop in overlay color, but it'll be more visible on second monitor with IM, irc, winamp etc. than on the primary one)

No, but if you turn on HW acceleration in player you can drag Player from G400 to Millennium powered display and still have video. For instance I could watch Reuters video on Millennium PCI in full screen (w/o HW overlay).

What about eDualHead? Does it work with two different cards? (I think that history on the side of the second monitor can be very usefull for me)

Downloaded eDualHead, tried it, it complained it didn't find any dualhead capable Matrox card, so forget eDualhead. Besides eDualhead is IE only thing. I'll try to get it to work now.

I'd too look in dualhead G400/G450/G550, although I must say I was very happy with Millennium and G400 combo. (If you can get a good deal on 2nd hand).

G450 PCI is a nice card, but it's already more than half way to P650 or even P750 (or even Parhelia if you get a very good price). Also intel chipset limitation....

Note that G400DH's 2ndary RAMDAC is only 175MHz (IIRC) which means 1280x1024@75Hz.

Imo spend little less on videocards (PCI oldie is the most cost effective) and a little more on monitors. I broke videocard worth more than displays rule because I got very good deal on it.


EDIT:
Also make sure you're using Powerdesk for both cards and not Windows drivers for PCI card.

[sparky001]

I had a mystique 2mb and a 3dfx voodoo banshee running multi-monitor. It does work, so dont be concerned about that.

[Nowhere]

Thanks for replies.
I've noticed now that there aren't really any milleniums II (apart from agp models ) at local auction site (people don't know what they have. Often you only know that it's a 2mb matrox pci card for example btw, the most clearly visible difference between millenium and millenium II is the old style chip packaging in millenium and G series like packaging in millenium II, right?). And from what I remember Utwig, the milleniums II that you can find here also have usually 2mb. Oh well, then it's perhaps mystique way for me (the ones available usually have more memory). 2d wise I won't notice a difference anyway (the same IQ, right?)

btw, are there any other 2d games than Total Annihilation that can work in stretched mode?

[UtwigMU]

Just get the first card with most RAM from closest seller that is known to work.

After that start searching online auction sites for "Matrox" untill you find 4MB or 8MB card (or 128MB card for decent price.... :-) )

BTW, Millennium is one badass board, only slightly narrower than Parhelia and same length.

Don't know about Mistique, but Millennium PCI had good image quality, although not as good as G400.

Unless you plan to use photoshop or some other high end graphic application on PCI card, 16-bit is enough, especially for tasks such as IRC, email, IM and alternative browser window (browsing text).


There are no public diagnostic utilities for older matrox cards.

My was listed as Matrox PCI card for 5$. A good way to find out is to ask people for model numbers or what says on the chip and RAMDAC.


With G400SH and PCI card you'll not get streched mode, only independant.

[Nowhere]

Allright, Millenium II 4mb coming soon (not Soon™)
Utwig, will I have to use 5.82 for both cards for flawless work? Because I think I'd like to use the latest drivers for G400 and when it comes to millenium...don't care much, since it'll be 2d stuff only display.

btw, since I know that stretched mode won't be there, are there any good (or great) 2d games that can work in a window which can be resized as you wish? This will work on such setup, right?

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by UtwigMU
Also make sure you install special dualhead for G400/G450 if you're using Win2k. Otherwise, you'll have huge problems (movies, games, 3D apps). Could you elaborate on this Utwig? What exactly do you need to get/install?

Note that G400DH's 2ndary RAMDAC is only 175MHz (IIRC) which means 1280x1024@75Hz. I think it's even less than that - 135MHz. That's about 1280x1024@60Hz.

Also it's a bit late now, but I was going to suggest getting a PCI G200. That would give you hardware overlay, 3D if you wanted it, and at least 8MB memory.

[Nowhere]

The legend arrived...(woot!!! )

Only one thing bothers me...what you've said, Utwig, about drivers. So what's the situation, what combinations are possible? (I think that Matrox Tech Support forums lost your posts during upgrading )

[UtwigMU]

You could try installing 2.82 drivers and installing lattest G400 drivers over those (they'll likely just update the G400 drivers and Powerdesk control panel). I haven't tried it.

I had no problems using 2.82 drivers.

I tried spanning apps such as AutoCAD2002, 3DStudioMAX 3 and Maya 2.5 across both screens - hardware texturing on Millennium driven monitor - woot.

Can you post a pic of Millennium II.

The original Millennium PCI is almost as big as Parhelia - pretty badass board.

Also flash Millennium II to lattest BIOS.

[Ribbit]

Since you're here Utwig, could you explain what you meant by "Special Dualhead for G400/G450 if you're using Win2K"? What exactly needs to be installed there?

[UtwigMU]

When installing Matrox drivers you can tick option:

Install special Dualhead for G400/G450

This is a hack that convinces Win2k that it has 2 graphic cards and enables independant dualhead under Win2k.

Without this 3D apps and video don't work with G400 and Millennim combo.

Don't ask me why, such are my observations.



Nowhere: post your observations and success/failure of using different drivers.

[Nowhere]

So far so good...works as it should.
But I've only used it as primary display (don't have second monitor yet) with original BIOS (I've got a feeling (or just remember something) that on NTFS upgrade won't be so easy) and native XP drivers (temporal hdd/OS so not worth installing everything, especially with one monitor only)
Video in 1024x768@32bpp is...weird, lowering to 16bpp or 800x600@32bpp cures it, scrolling seems also not so fluent etc., but I can't expect more from a cheap card with so little ram. It's all very good overall.

edit: Utwig, I have only a shitty webcam (perhaps I'll go with the card to someone with scanner...), but it mostly (can't check if exactly, since I'm using it right now) looks like this one
And it's from Ireland...

[UtwigMU]

BTW, FYI:


Parhelia and Millennium PCI work together as well.