Who was running Windows 98 when parhelia was released?

[KvHagedorn]

When sales are lost, it is ALWAYS a big mistake. According to the poll, 8 people from our little forum did not buy a Parhelia because Matrox was too STUPID to offer a win98 driver. That's all you can call it.. stupidity, because after all, you are in business to sell cards, right? You don't do that too well when you purposely and pigheadedly narrow your market for no good reason.

[Ribbit]

To put it another way, if these figures are representative of Parhelia's potential customer base (which probably isn't a very bad assumption), they'd have sold 20% more cards if they'd provided a Win98 driver. That's a very significant figure.

[Belwarrior]

LOL statistics can be twisted in any way..

[Sr17]

Originally posted by Ribbit
To put it another way, if these figures are representative of Parhelia's potential customer base (which probably isn't a very bad assumption), they'd have sold 20% more cards if they'd provided a Win98 driver. That's a very significant figure.

I don't think you are right with 20% because you don't have statistics on the whole potential customers.

I am a seller and solution integrator. None of my user never complained about lack of windows 98 support.

In many cases, many users bought a parhelia for a new solution. For now, nobody sell solutions using windows 98.

[Sr17]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
When sales are lost, it is ALWAYS a big mistake. According to the poll, 8 people from our little forum did not buy a Parhelia because Matrox was too STUPID to offer a win98 driver. That's all you can call it.. stupidity, because after all, you are in business to sell cards, right? You don't do that too well when you purposely and pigheadedly narrow your market for no good reason.

Nobody can do everything. It will mean that you'll always loose clients in ALL cases.

In many cases, supporting all clients sillyness can be very costly.

In my opinion (i'm a company manager), silly clients can go away. It's not a problem. Why ?

There are clients that would always want complicated features that cost high amount of investement. And in many cases there are to few : You'll never get back your investment.
And the problem is that the crazy-silly clients are only a very few and all of them want different features..... Then they could go away. It's not a problem.

I say again that the best solution to use Windows 98 is to use TWO computers. The new with windows XP. And your old one with Windows 98.

If you don't have your old computer, you can find one for less than 200$.

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by Sr17
I don't think you are right with 20% because you don't have statistics on the whole potential customers.

Which is why I said "...if these figures are representative of Parhelia's potential customer base...". Actually, I figured that it wasn't far off - this forum's members include gamers, video editors, financial workers, programmers, and CAD engineers, but I realise I was being a bit optimistic. Anyway, my and KvH's point still stands, which is that Matrox lost sales because they narrowed their market, and those lost sales are potentially quite significant.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Sr17
For now, nobody sell solutions using windows 98.

No, they don't. They have Win98 already on their boxes, and were thinking of upgrading. That's why MS just reversed their decision and decided to continue support for it. Matrox eliminated themselves from the upgrade path.

[borat]

I dont want to get into a bitch slapping contest here but is it really necessary for you to post the same thing over and over again SR17? we had the discussion, you thought differently to everyone else on here, thats fine, but dont keep whining on about it.

[Sr17]

Originally posted by Ribbit
Which is why I said "...if these figures are representative of Parhelia's potential customer base...". Actually, I figured that it wasn't far off - this forum's members include gamers, video editors, financial workers, programmers, and CAD engineers, but I realise I was being a bit optimistic. Anyway, my and KvH's point still stands, which is that Matrox lost sales because they narrowed their market, and those lost sales are potentially quite significant.

You will always loose sales when you decide don't have some features. But does the extra customers that would have bought Parhelia in that case would have covered developpement expenses ?

[Sr17]

Originally posted by borat
I dont want to get into a bitch slapping contest here but is it really necessary for you to post the same thing over and over again SR17? we had the discussion, you thought differently to everyone else on here, thats fine, but dont keep whining on about it.

Yes but, the interest is in undestanding why we think differently.

[Zanna]

I think at least a Display Driver (with no PowerDesk) will not be so costly, because I think making drivers for 98/me is not so complex as for 2k/XP.

And this little job, compared to a potential 10% increase in sales is not so costly.
(This potential percentage I think was right in the time Matrox has launched the Parhelia Card, now I don't know..)

Obviously, there must be a computer programmer to do this.

Matrox have enough computer programmers?

Will be a good thing if Matrox
1) Release a PowerDesk version with no included Display Drivers, independend from the OS
2) Release the Display Drivers for every supported OS
3) Release the Parhelia Specs to registered developers in order to give enough informations to developers itself so those developers can make a Display Driver goor for old OSes.

[Drizzt]

I don't see the point of this whole discussion.
Everybody, since Win95 came out, has complained that it is crap.
Win98 out, and it was crap.
WinME out, and it was crap.
Win2k, and everybody thinks it's ok. And, continue using Win98.

Win9X is pure shit, now. Having Win9X pulled out of the market would help everybody, as developers should not spend huge amounts of time to write apps for two differents OSes.
Apps I mean drivers, too, that are a totally different things between the two systems.
Win9x it's a brake, nothing more nothing less.


Now, let's use logic.
Why do you want Win9X drivers for P?
1) "Because I've got work applications that works only on Win98"
Good. If it's for work then you don't need a gaming card on that PC.

2) "My working apps are CADs and graphical apps that works only on Win98, and I'd really like to use a TripleHead P with them"
Your CADs and graphical apps doens't run on Win2k? You are using the wrong software. Who did wrote it, your two years old son?

3) "Because I've no money to upgrade my PC to a good Win2k configuration"
Upgrade your PC, buy a good ATI card, and you have spent less money than purchasing a single Parhelia

4) "Because I'm a generic Joe user and I don't know how to use Win2k"
If you are a generic Joe user and you want to buy a Parhelia, the shop owner is tring to f**k you with a two meters wide pole.




Any other reason for wanting a P on Win98, other than those?

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Zanna
I think at least a Display Driver (with no PowerDesk) will not be so costly, because I think making drivers for 98/me is not so complex as for 2k/XP.

You are right, it's not so complex as for Win2k.
It's lot more complex, and a total different work to do.

And this little job, compared to a potential 10% increase in sales is not so costly.
(This potential percentage I think was right in the time Matrox has launched the Parhelia Card, now I don't know..)

10% of "nearly nothing" is "nearly nearly nothing".

Obviously, there must be a computer programmer to do this.

Matrox have enough computer programmers?

Will be a good thing if Matrox
1) Release a PowerDesk version with no included Display Drivers, independend from the OS

That is? A PD that is tailored for doing the minum on Win98 , so that it can work on Win2k doing nothing, or a PD tailored for no one of the two OSes, so to do nothing on each one of the two?

2) Release the Display Drivers for every supported OS

Again, do you want:
1) A couple of year of developement to have a basic driver optimized for every OS or
2) A driver that do a bare minimum, being compatible with all the OSes but with taking no advantage of the OSes functions?
In other words, do you prefers no drivers or shitty/slow drivers?

3) Release the Parhelia Specs to registered developers in order to give enough informations to developers itself so those developers can make a Display Driver goor for old OSes.

This is a good idea, maybe that there is someone who would like to spent a few years developing gratis a full P driver and to give everybody his cellular phone BECAUSE he MUST grant that he solve every problem with those drivers.
Or where you thinking to buy a pro videocard of the cost of a single PC and then having to use it with slow/bugged/home made drivers without a bare minimum of support?




In the end, do you want to buy an Tank to go in City Centre to the supermarket, an then complain because you find no parking?

[Zanna]

Drizzt.....

I need to use W2k or whatever AND w98.

I don't have space to land a second PC into the same room.

It's simple, right?

Bye !

[Marshmallowman]

Which is why I said "...if these figures are representative of Parhelia's potential customer base...". Actually, I figured that it wasn't far off - this forum's members include gamers, video editors, financial workers, programmers, and CAD engineers, but I realise I was being a bit optimistic.

Yup your being optimistic, this an matrox enthusiasts site, you are going to get a lot higher percentages here, try the same poll on raged3d and you would get a lot of WTF's and be lucky to see 1% say they wanted a parhelia and win98.

When it came out win98 was a big step up from win95 in stabilty, I went to it as soon as it came out...I did quite like win NT 3.51/4 but it you could never really get it to play games but it was very stable (a whole different ballpark from win98)

When win2k came out, win98/me/95 was dead, it is stable, it runs all the new games, I started using it from rc2 onwards and was as happy as a pig in $hit.

It would be nice to be able to dual boot win98 for older games, but realistcaly you are better off putting an old system together for that as sound and graphics incompatabilties with new hardware and old games are a pain.

PS Linux is compatable with old games through wine, and you have parhelia drivers. MS is going to orphan win98 as soon as it can get away with it...so

I think matrox decision was good, as they saved a lot on pointless development. (IMHO)