Claims of unique G400 TV-out quality are not correct!

[TheRookie]

As I am doing research to put together my first HTPC I found many recommendations for the Matrox Millenium 32MB Dual Head G400. Many posters claim that the G400 has superior TV-out quality when connecting to a regular CRT TV using the special G400 - to - RGB SCART cable (only for us Eurotrash ;-).

But wait a minute! The pin-outs for the G400 VGA-SCART RGB CABLE

http://dzeus.student.utwente.nl/g400/win2kfaq.html#scart_rgb

are identical to the pin-outs for a generic VGA-SCART RGB CABLE shown

http://www.idiots.org.uk/vga_rgb_scart/index.html

Also, if you check out the idiots vga-scart page, you get instructions on how to use powerstrip to create presets for the different TV-formats to switch between (e.g. PAL50, PAL60)

So, it would seem that the "only" advantage offered by a G400 is the DVD-max feature. Any other card with a VGA-to-SCART RGB cable used in conjunction with PowerStrip would give the same TV-out quality!! You would only need to set PowerStrip to drive the VGA-out of your "generic" graphics card with the same timings as the desired TV-format (PAL50, PAL60, etc.)?!?!

[Wombat]

No, you don't understand at all. It's not some magic cable.

First of all, the TV signal is analog, and so image quality varies from output device to output device (and thus, video card to video card). The G400 is recommended because it has a 3rd party chipset that generates its TV signal, and that chip does quite nicely. It also has a good number of software features for setting your dimensions, image placement, etc.


I'd offer to help, but you didn't come here to ask questions; you came here to bitch, and even worse, you're wrong about it.

[dZeus]

I take it you aren't familiar with using DVD-MAX ?

I've tried SCART-RGB with powerstrip on a radeon, and it's a pain to use, compared to DVD-MAX. There just are too many problems with using the tv as an 'interlaced monitor' with special timings (which you define with powerstrip), compared to using it by blowing up all overlay video on the primary monitor in full overscan to the tv (i.e. DVD-MAX).

You might be correct about the SCART-RGB quality being comparable between G400 and other cards. Though image quality is not equal for all cards, so it might have effect on SCART-RGB output to tv as well.

[a_h]

DVD-Max is the technology EVERY vga-card with TV-out should have.

I don't wish you this pain in the arse that you get instantly with the NVidia cards and TV-Tool...Cheers, Hannes

[Kruzin]

There is a reason so many people claim the good ol' G400 has the best TV-out quality. That reason is because it's true.
G400 used a high quality external Maven chip. Nobody else used this type of chip. Even Matrox stopped using it after G400, when they went to a maven that is integrated into the main ASIC of the GPU. Nothing since G400 has had the same TVO quality.
I have used the TVO on G450, G550, Parhelia, GeForce and Radeon class cards, and not a one of them has looked as good as G400. And it has nothing to do with a magic cable.
I still use my G400 in my HTPC, and see no reason to stop using it.

As Wombat said, you obviously didn't come here for help or advice, but to try to convince us that a card you've never even seen in action isn't as good at TVO as we, who have used the card, know to be true.

[dZeus]

well in SCART-RGB mode, you can address the TV as a monitor, with RGB and composite sync. It's a standard that most TVs that have a SCART socket comply to (ones that are sold in 'native PAL-countries'). So in that case the 'superior quality' of Matrox tv-out is not really applicable, since PAL/NTSC 'encoding' is bypassed.

G400 does give the best s-video out of all cards I've ever seen (and probably composite too, but that looks ugly ). And what people also have commented on is that SCART-RGB looks even better than S-Video.
Not to mention that nVidia's and ATI's 'DVD-MAX' implementation leave a lot to be desired, and DON'T support SCART-RGB, contrary to DVD-MAX on the G400. So the G400 still is the best tv-out card with a great margin.

[feikRAM]

AFIK a VGA-card cannot exactly reproduce the timings required for television. I believe it has something to do with multiples of eight and such. The result is excessive flickering. The images from crappy composite-cards are much steadier, but lacks the sharpness and colours.

[a_h]

The result is excessive flickering. The images from crappy composite-cards are much steadier, but lacks the sharpness and colours.

Sorry, but what are you talking about?

[dZeus]

never noticed the flickering either. Or are you talking about a flicker-filter? (btw. another reason to use Matrox as they're the only one to provide flicker filter for desktop tv-out with scart-rgb)

[Belwarrior]

erm actually i am using my g400 for the DOS TV-out. I can see the action on the screen from the moment i start my PC.. not sure whether any of the new cards can do DOS TV-out. I am using PAL btw

[greinedo]

Ok, I can speak here about my latest steps in my HTPC quest.

While always seeking the best TV ouput, two months ago,I removed my G400 and tried the SCART RGB DRIVE as described. I 'm using a RADEON 9200 PCI, tweaked with Powerstrip to output a true PAL signal, together with a Geforce 4200 AGP, in order to have decent 3D (I wanted to play URU…)

Using 2 different graphic cards (AGP+PCI) gives some advantages in a home theater setup (true windows multi-monitor configuration). From the computer monitor I can tweak easily the timing of the RADEON card connected to TV. If I loose sync no problem, I don't have to reboot. The great advantage, is to have TRUE SCART RGB connection, and good 3D at the same time. You cannot reach this with an AGP graphic card, even the Parhelia.

But to be honest, and after having watched my favourite DVDs 2 or 3 times,with this new setup, it’s clear to me that the G400 PAL output (with DVDMAX) is a little better than the RADEON PAL output (SCART RGB DRIVE). The colors of the Matrox card are better. The sharpness of both solution is very good.

So in a Home Theater setup, ,where 3D power is not needed, the Matrox G400 is still the best solution. Next step for me : comparing TV-out picture quality of the P750 with my previous experiences. In fact, It seems a P750 is coming soon, I’m the lucky winner of the P750 in the MURC competition!

greinedo

[Marshmallowman]

I guess that was rookie's first and last post..rookie troll

[Sasq]

Some of them just have no staying power.

[Kruzin]

And some are just clueless morons who shoot off thier mouth, then vanish when they realise they have no idea what they are spouting off about...

[gt40]

Originally posted by Kruzin
And some are just clueless morons who shoot off thier mouth, then vanish when they realise they have no idea what they are spouting off about...

Doesn't explain why some ppl still post here.