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  • To buy a Matrox or not?

    Although I've heard about Matrox cards for years, I only just recently saw one in action, (a Millenium P750), and I was most impressed.

    I'm in the process of configuring a whole new system and have been trying to decide on a video card. My current card is a GeForce 4 Ti4200 64MB. I chose it back in 2002 because it seemed to offer a good balance of what I wanted: a) Very good 2D/3D image quality in a variety of scenarios; b) gave me dual monitor support (one LCD via DVI & one CRT via VGA); c) good performance for gaming (for games at the time); and d) flexibility, decent features, and a decent software bundle.

    My needs have changed a bit over the years. What I'd like in a video card are as follows:

    1. Excellent 2D workstation performance;
    2. Excellent DVD playback on my PC; (not on my TV).
    3. Some sort of hardware motion compensation or mpeg2 decoding on the chip to take some of the load off the system's CPU.
    4. Dual monitor support -- doesn't have to be dual DVI, although I think I'd like that.
    5. Would like to play some 3D games. This is the lowest priority. I don't play any really heavy-duty games like Doom III, so I don't need a ton of power or 256MB of VRAM. I do enjoy some adventure and role-playing games, though, so when I do game, I like to be able to play at a decent resolution, i.e. minimum 1024 x 768 and decent speed.

    In one of the other threads, I read this posted by Thunderfoot:
    As for Matrox... My plan is to get a motherboard with 2 16xPCI-Express slots so I can have a Parhelia variant in one and a gaming powerhouse in the other.
    I've thought of that, and it sounds great, but I'm not yet ready to jump onboard Intel's new platform.

    Anyway, based on my needs/wants, what would your recommendations be?

    It seems to me I could:

    1. Get a Matrox P750 card; (but gaming ability would probably be minimal).

    2. Get a Matrox Parhelia 128 MB (although I've read they run hot; is that right?) (Decent for the non-hardcore gamer like myself?)

    3. Get another "compromise" type card as I did in 2002. For example, a GeForce FX 5900XT has been highly recommended as having excellent 2D and 3D image quality. (I haven't tested it for myself.) Various ATI cards have also been recommended.

    4. Get a Matrox card along with a PCI graphics accelerator. Would that help?

    5. Get a Matrox AGP card and a PCI mid-range gaming card. I'm not sure how a PCI card would perform.

    6. Get a Matrox PCI card (not too many of them) and an AGP gaming card. This doesn't sound wise, since my main priority is for superior 2D performance.

    Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
    -- Jerry
    Last edited by JerryMouse; 7 September 2004, 23:55.

  • #2
    I think a Parhelia would fit your needs. They don't run that hot given the cooling is almost the same as the old G400max !!!! (40mm fan and small heatsink).

    Plus the P8X, is a little faster than the 4X and is overclockable if you change the cooling (see my thread about the zalman cooler).

    I'm not a hardcore gamer and the P8X is very satisfying, I can play a few games at more than acceptable framerate with much eyecandy (NFSU, Indiana Jones, StarWars KOTOR,...).
    System : ASUS A8N SLI premium, Athlon 64X2 3800+, 2Gb, T7K500 320Gb SATAII, T7K250 250Gb SATAII, T7K250 250Gb ATA133, Nec ND-3520, Plextor PX130A, SB Audigy 2, Sapphire Radeon X800 GTO, 24" Dell 2407WFP.

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    • #3
      Parhelia supports Dual-DVI, but sadly only analog for triplehead (not that the difference is too much).

      Parhelia fits your requirements and i suppose if it is too expensive a P750 would be okay as well for adventure and rpg games.

      (I play with only one screen but on a demo with both Parhelia and P750, i must say NeverWinterNights never looked as good on my PC as it looked in Surround Gaming, should have some pics of it here somewhere in the gaming forum)
      Life is a bed of roses. Everyone else sees the roses, you are the one being gored by the thorns.

      AMD PhenomII555@B55(Quadcore-3.2GHz) Gigabyte GA-890FXA-UD5 Kingston 1x2GB Generic 8400GS512MB WD1.5TB LGMulti-Drive Dell2407WFP
      ***Matrox G400DH 32MB still chugging along happily in my other pc***

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      • #4
        Seems a Radeon would fit your needs, for less money than a Parhelia, and with far better gaming performance to boot. nVidia allegedly has lousy 2D workstation performance.

        The advantage of a Parhelia over a Radeon would be the dual-DVI and triplehead abilities, which would probably interest you (even if not right now) if your main concern is 2D workstation use.
        Blah blah blah nick blah blah confusion, blah blah blah blah frog.

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        • #5
          PAugustin and Belwarrior:

          Thanks very much for your quick replies!

          I was leaning towards the Parhelia 8x, except I had some concerns about heat issues. I don't plan to overclock it, but I'll definitely check out your thread about the Zalman cooler anyway, PAugustin.

          Belwarrior: I'll definitely search for your screenshots of NeverWinterNights using the Parhelia 8x!!

          Thanks again!
          -- Jerry

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          • #6
            Regarding the heat, I have to say that the old P's get a bit hot (but not more than actual Radeon or Geforce-cards, also never had a problem with the heat) but that the new P8x is much cooler!
            P IV 3,06 Ghz, GA-8ihxp i850e, 512 MB PC-1066 RDRam, Parhelia 128 mb 8x, 40 + 60 gb IBM 7200 upm/2048 kb HD, Samtron 96 P 19", black icemat, Razer Boomslang 2100 krz-2 + mousebungee, Videologic sonic fury, Creative Soundworks

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            • #7
              Che Guevara,
              Thanks for the additional info on the Parhelia 8X. I'm very much into keeping my components (and system) well-cooled. I probably do overkill in this respect, but it's just one of my things. Anyway, my case is well-modded with fans strategically placed to cool off any hot-running cards. So, with the info you provided, I feel much better. I don't think I'll need PAugustin's mod with the Zalman cooler, although I'm definitely going to file away that info. Good stuff!

              OK, on to another question: In other threads here, it has been suggested that the Parhelia was/is a failure. Someone said they considered it a "price failure" rather than a performance one.

              Well, hard-core gamers seem to be willing to spend a lot of money on the latest high-end gaming card and upgrade every 6 months or so. For them, gaming is significant to their quality of life, so the expense is justified.

              Well, I work at home and am building a new, high-quality 2D workstation that will also allow me to play some 3D games. Considering you can pay around $450-$600 for a high-end gaming card, I don't understand why it's unreasonable to pay about $350 (Newegg) for a Parhelia 8x. The expense seems justified so I can achieve my goals. Is superior 2D performance plus decent game playing not worth $350?

              No card seems to do it all really well, or??

              Is there a Matrox card that has a better price/performance ratio than the Parhelia?

              Of course, prices for gaming cards tend to drop significantly as soon as the next generation arrives. Is this what bothers some people? It seems to me that gamers end up spending more in the long run, since they want to upgrade frequently to keep pace with software, whereas I can see myself keeping the Parhelia for the life of my system, (maybe 3 years -- I'll probably eventually jump on Intel's new platform or AMD's Athlon-64).

              Well, anyway, this is all very interesting. Please feel free to comment.
              -- Jerry
              Last edited by JerryMouse; 9 September 2004, 02:22.

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              • #8
                You have to consider the price of the Parhelia when it came out and what you could get for the same price. And the Parhelia was very expensive if you wanted to compare gaming performance.

                Now the Parhelia is a very good card that offer moderate gaming perf with top IQ and a lot of features. It would be better priced Ã_ 300 $/€ than the usual 400...
                System : ASUS A8N SLI premium, Athlon 64X2 3800+, 2Gb, T7K500 320Gb SATAII, T7K250 250Gb SATAII, T7K250 250Gb ATA133, Nec ND-3520, Plextor PX130A, SB Audigy 2, Sapphire Radeon X800 GTO, 24" Dell 2407WFP.

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                • #9
                  Instead of that 5900XT, check out the 6600GT, the new mainstream card from nvidia; should be similar price but much better performance. (I know you don't need a powerhouse, but for the price you should really check it out.)
                  Q9450 + TRUE, G.Skill 2x2GB DDR2, GTX 560, ASUS X48, 1TB WD Black, Windows 7 64-bit, LG M2762D-PM 27" + 17" LG 1752TX, Corsair HX620, Antec P182, Logitech G5 (Blue)
                  Laptop: MSI Wind - Black

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                  • #10
                    @JerryMouse:
                    No, there is no Matrox card with a better price/performance ratio than the Parhelia 8x 128 Mb retail for work and gaming.

                    @PAugustin:
                    The Parhelia was, when it came out, not as fast as a Ti 4600 (without AA of course), but it offered better IQ and more features. I feel sometimes gamers want these things for free , if they don't want them, ok, but they should understand that some people buy money not only for fps . And nobody noticed the performance increases with later drivers and later games, compared to the Gf4 Ti cards (The card was first enough for actual games and it is often faster than Gf4 in later games). That's the way it always goes, if some the first reviews are bad (not all were that), people become blind... sad.
                    P IV 3,06 Ghz, GA-8ihxp i850e, 512 MB PC-1066 RDRam, Parhelia 128 mb 8x, 40 + 60 gb IBM 7200 upm/2048 kb HD, Samtron 96 P 19", black icemat, Razer Boomslang 2100 krz-2 + mousebungee, Videologic sonic fury, Creative Soundworks

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                    • #11
                      If you're in the market for a Parhelia, send me a PM.

                      I'm presently selling mine as I needed something else for Linux.

                      Mine is modded with a much larger heatsink and BGA ramsinks.

                      I have reflashed the bios so that it runs at 230/600, as opposed to the stock 220/550.

                      It is fully stable at that speed.

                      All cables and accessories are included, as is the original box.

                      Sorry to take the thread off topic.

                      Oh, and I'm willing to go rather low to sell it...
                      Let us return to the moon, to stay!!!

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                      • #12
                        on a side note... is the hardware glyph anit aliasing any good? is it quicker/better than using clear type?
                        ______________________________
                        Nothing is impossible, some things are just unlikely.

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                        • #13
                          Actually, I don't think I've read one "bad" review for the Parhelia, (and I've now read at least 10!); just some folks think it's overpriced; others knock it because it can't keep up with gaming cards.

                          Now, based on what I've been reading, it looks like the name "Parhelia-512" can refer to either the older, agp 4x (PH-A128B) version or the newer, agp 8x (PH-A8X128) version. I've had a hard time finding reviews for the newer card. Hardware sites should do more follow-up reviews!!

                          Anyway, in another thread in the Gaming forum, a user posted a link to an article at The Tech Report where image quality in Doom 3 was compared among many different video cards, including the "Parhelia-512 128MB." But unfortunately, The Tech Report doesn't say which 512 they used. One assumes the 8x with the newest drivers, but then possibly not. If not, then it's really not a fair comparison at all.

                          I have no plans to play Doom 3, but considering the Parhelia wasn't designed for such games, I didn't think the IQ was too shabby. Pretty good, in fact.
                          -- Jerry

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                          • #14
                            If Matrox cards aren't getting reviews, it's because of Matrox. MURC itself had a damn hard time getting a hold of any cards for a review. And M has only been getting worse with community relations as time goes on. Hell, they didn't even press release the P8X, it just showed up on some web stores.
                            Gigabyte P35-DS3L with a Q6600, 2GB Kingston HyperX (after *3* bad pairs of Crucial Ballistix 1066), Galaxy 8800GT 512MB, SB X-Fi, some drives, and a Dell 2005fpw. Running WinXP.

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                            • #15
                              If Matrox cards aren't getting reviews, it's because of Matrox. MURC itself had a damn hard time getting a hold of any cards for a review. And M has only been getting worse with community relations as time goes on. Hell, they didn't even press release the P8X, it just showed up on some web stores.
                              Ohhhh, I see, thanks. Yes, that makes sense, I should have thought of that.

                              Well, after seeing the P750 in action recently on a good CRT monitor, I really became enthusiastic about Matrox products, and I still am. And despite their plans to release a PCI-e card, there seems to be some ... uneasiness here about Matrox's stability as a company, (expressed in other threads). Is that true? If so, perhaps I'd be better off with an ATI- or nVidia-based card after all. (Sigh)

                              Well, I'll continue to research.
                              --------------------------------
                              K6-III: Thanks very much for the offer, but if I decide on a Parhelia 8x, I'd rather have an unmodded one.

                              -- Jerry
                              Last edited by JerryMouse; 9 September 2004, 21:24.

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