Wy MATROX doesn't support now W95 + TGL ?

[Gurm]

Folks,

Problems with Win95:

1. Win95A is unpatchable, unfixable, and unworkable for any processor other than a standard Pentium or lower. And 90% of people out there don't realise that there was a Win95B or Win95C. In fact, you can't buy Win95B or Win95C, so 90% of people don't have it... so those people CAN'T have TurboGL no matter what. They also can't use their P2 system very well.

2. Win95 (all versions) doesn't recognise SSE, or 3D Now! (at least not properly), or even AGP slots. Therefore, sidebanding is broken in it and you'll ALWAYS have problems with it.

3. Microsoft has stopped releasing patches and workarounds for Win95, just as they did with Windows 3.1 several years ago. So you are now running a "dead" operating system.

4. Grow up. Stop using a 5-year-old OS. You don't expect Windows 3.1 or DOS to have full OpenGL capabilities, do you? Sheesh.

- GUrm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[billko]

Gurm...

And upgrade to... what? Windows 98, a slightly LESS dead operating system? Remember, Microsoft declared the whole Win9x OS dead.

If I were to upgrade, I guess it would be to Windows 2000. At least it seems to be a major upgrade, instead of what should have been a service pack, or at most sold as a minor upgrade (that is, Win98).

However, I accept the limitations of my operating system (Win95 OSR 2.1)until I feel the need to upgrade. The need to upgrade hasn't exceeded the comfort level of a well-worn operating system. Not yet, at least.

Actually I did this with Win95, too. I stayed with Windows 3.1 until I felt the need to move on. That is, when games came out that only ran in Win95, I decided it was time to change.

Bill


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People call me a computer god; I remind them that I am merely a minor deity...


[This message has been edited by billko (edited 01 January 2000).]

[This message has been edited by billko (edited 01 January 2000).]

[paulcs]

I wouldn't call the transition from Windows 98 to Windows 2000 a Windows 9x upgrade. Windows 2000 is really an NT upgrade. Heck, it is NT. It's NT 5. I guess you can argue that switching OS's from Windows 9x to any version NT is in itself an upgrade.

I guess, to Microsoft's point of view, the consumer OS upgrade path is Windows 95 -> Windows 98 -> Windows Millennium. "Upgrade" to Windows 2000 and you are in a sense switching paths.

How's that for a semantic arguement.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[billko]

paulcs:

I guess I use the term "upgrade" differently than most. I consider the installation of a new OS, even if completely different, an upgrade, as long as it actually is more stable and/or has more features.

(I don't consider Win98 an upgrade - it's a service pack.)

Bill

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People call me a computer god; I remind them that I am merely a minor deity...


[This message has been edited by billko (edited 02 January 2000).]

[itchi]

I'm going to have to agree with gurm on this one. Win98SE is far superior than Win95. I really don't understand the threads where people are arguing how 98se is an upgrade to 95. If I want to upgrade my 69 camaro I go and buy new wheels or maybe a new cam. I don't go and buy a new 2000 camaro.

IMHO 98 is the OS MS should have released instead of 95, but they didn't and now we have to live with it. What, it's 100 bucks, and how much was your system? And Installing a new OS is not a big deal. I run the G400 because I want my computer to be the latest and greatest.

Matrox right now needs to put more time and effort into getting their drivers more stable. (I really really want to have q3radiant working) and if they need to support all flavours of 9x they won't be able to do it.

So stop sticking bondo on your old version of 95 and come play with the big boys.
-----------------------
PIII 500, 128MB RAM ,44xCD-ROM,Sound Blaster AWE32, 3c900b-tpo, WD Caviar, G400 32MB
Win98SE,NT 4.0SP6,Linux Mandrake
And loving it.

[ianshepherd]

An innocent question - what is AGP sidebanding, & is it relevant to gaming on a G400 ? ( People keep going on about AGP 2x, too, but as far as I can make out it makes no difference with current texture-sizes.)

Next - *if* I want to upgrade to 98, can I do it cleanly without a reformat ? I have over 5 GIGs of well-installed, stable software - I *don't* want to start again 'till absolutely necessary, and I keep hearing horror-stories about non-clean upgrades...

Cheers

Ian

[Gurm]

Ian:

AGP Sidebanding is what differentiates an AGP slot from a PCI slot (besides the 66mhz vs. 33mhz thing). It means that the AGP bus can transfer data via these "sideband" thingies. Basically it's like DMA for a PCI slot. AGP is really just like that, when you get right down to cases - it avoids CPU usage.

Anyway, sidebanding is vital to AGP. If you turn it off you might as well have a PCI card.

On the Win98 topic... your mileage may vary. In THEORY you should be able to upgrade cleanly. In practice, this almost never happens. Sorry, man. You gotta bite the bullet here. The following things really necessitate a clean install (fdisk/format):

- New video card
- New motherboard
- Win95->Win98
- Win98->Win2k (if replacing...)

You DON'T need a fresh install if adding Win2k or WinNT to a system.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[billko]

"So stop sticking bondo on your old version of 95 and come play with the big boys."

I like that. That's funny. Or, like buying a luxury version of a muscle car and adding high performance stuff to it so it becomes close to, but not quite, the performance model.

For me, though, what I have is adequate.

Bill

[Gurm]

Oops, sorry for that last post, must have been my evil twin!

- Gurm

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"I'm bad Ash, and you're good Ash. You're Mr. Goody-Two-Shoes!"

[billko]

...and you're the GOOD twin? Yikes, what a choice!

Bill

[itchi]

Are you serios about wfw311? That'd be pretty hilarious if the g400 does work for it. My machine is already triple boot, I wonder if I should dig up a copy and put it on. I bet my fps would have a significant increase due to low overhead of the OS.

[ianshepherd]

Hi Gurm -

Well, you might be right, but I swapped video cards without a re-install, & one of the major UK PC magazines did a feature on mobo u/gs recently. A reader called them to task about this, saying it just wasn't realistic - re-installs etc were necessary, & the mag replied claiming to have done about 7 swaps on the same machine over a couple of years for review purposes, all smoothly without re-instals...

What you say just tells me I'm right to stick with Win 95 for now. '98 won't offer enough benefits for a Celeron-user like me, and Win2000 has some way to go ( like, a couple of service patches ) before I shell out any cash.

Cheers though, & good luck in your quest to get people to upgrade - have the comissions from MS arrived yet ?

Ian

[Gurm]

Ian,

On the motherboard/reinstall thing:

This magazine is, quite simply put, lying. They may have made such reinstalls work, but they are never ever smooth. I have a friend who HAD been running the same system with no reinstalls through the following sequence of installations:

DOS/Win3.1
Win95 Betas (Several)
Win95
Win95 OSR2 (hacked to upgrade)
Win98 Betas (Several)
Win98 Final
Win98 SE

Then, one of his hard drives crapped out. So I helped him do a complete reinstall. And his first comment was "wow, is it supposed to load up this quick?", followed by "let's benchmark this system", followed by "Holy Shit! That's 50% faster!"

*sigh*

And it turns out he had just been living without OpenGL support because it was so broken.

*sigh*

As for the other, I may seem to be an evangelist, but I'm just a pragmatist. If YOU can make Win95 work for you, more power to ya. I salute you. But if you are a minor Win95 Configuration Deity (TM), I don't know it. All I know is you asked about Win95 vs. Win98, and the answer is, to 99% of the people out there... UPGRADE. NOW.

Very simple really. It makes our lives as troubleshooters a lot easier. We've simply been plagued by people lately who come out with something resembling the following:

"My G400 doesn't work on my system! Why not?"

"What are your specs?"

"Athlon with 256MB and Win95."

"Which Win95?"

"What do you mean? The one I bought in the store!"

*SIGH*

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.