Unreal CPU limited Quake II not?

[SlurpDog]

Here's a question for you: since Quake3 requires hardware acceleration, why doesn't Carmack move away from using BSP trees to store world information?

Anyway, I have no idea how the vis method differ between the engines, or exactly how the lighting techniques differ. I could venture some guesses, but I really don't know for sure. Please enlighten me.

However, you've shown that you're biased since you have "friends" who work in companies that use the Quake2 engine. Of course they will think it's better -- nobody would willingly choose an engine they feel to be inferior. However, there are over a dozen Unreal engine games in the works, and I bet the programmers at those companies would tell you all about how the Unreal engine is superior.

I never said you could write a fully featured, well optimized engine in a month or two. I said you could write an engine in that time, which a decent programmer most certainly could.

I guess I underestimated your knowledge, and I apologize. However, you really don't need to be such an ass about it -- it's not that big a deal.

[armybob]

OK I apologize for being an ass about things. Actually I know people who have worked with the Unreal engine also so its not a biased opinion in that matter.

I am sorry for being an ass in our discussion. The reason I got like that was because I happen to have 1st hand knowledge of the issue at hand & when I see someone acting like he has that knowledge as well and is touting bad information I sorta get "defensive". My bad.

I don't mean to be an ass to you.

I guess this is a prime example of messageboard lameness huh

I wish we could have our conversation in real life it would be a GOOD discussion on the plus's & minus's of game engines.

Oh well its over & done with.

-armybob

p.s. nothing is wrong with BSP its proven to work. However portals & things like that are very cool also (seen some cool things in the upcoming vampire game).

[SlurpDog]

No problem.

I'd love to discuss this in person too. Stupid messageboards...

As for BSPs, I've heard they're not very good for outdoor worlds. I guess this isn't a major concern for Quake3, but both LithTech2 and Sweeney's next engine will apparently emphasize outdoor environments a great deal, and will be using new map formats.

Portals do seem cool. Have you checked out CrystalSpace? I was mostly curious about it because it's open source and runs on Linux, but it uses portals. Of course, it's still pretty beta, but the newest release is supposed to be pretty good. Now if someone would just build a game with it...

[armybob]

haha yeah messageboards can be sorta lame ;(

anyways BSP obviously has its upsides & downsides just like any method. The problem with it for outdoor areas is if its detailed its A LOT of data to draw so basically if you have a very fast cpu & or video card with hardware T&L (september nv10) its probably feasible. Again though a lot of it comes down to speed of the engine, how large the outdoor is & how much detail etc..its very hard to actually give specific details because their are so many variables.

Portals are pretty cool although they're nothing new. Did you know the original DarkForces used them? As DF2 Jedi Knight. Nothing very amazing but can lead to cool effects & depending on the type of game you're making might be a better choice then BSP.

Sweeney has a decent idea for outdoor worlds with unreal, although can really be a downfall when it comes bad map making. He sorta uses "zones" for vising data. For example on level 2 when you walk outside you're in a "zone" of vis data so it can run at a decent speed. Then when you look over the cliff there is another "zone" so the engine isn't drawing the WHOLE world at the same time as no computer could really handle that at a fast enough rate. The downside is you can have certain angles where your computer is drawing 2+ zones at the same time, which of course = shitty framerate.

Crystal space seems pretty cool. I agree I would like to see a company use it for an actual game.

I'm curious on what method sweeney will use in his next engine. I unfortunantly didn't get to see lithtech2.0 demo at e3 as it was closed doors & I don't know anyone at monolith

However the screenshots look AMAZING. Then again I load up shogo, remember all the hype about lithtech1.0 and then sorta lose faith.

Who knows though raven did a complete 180 with the shitty ass HexenII to the kickass HereticII (btw go get it, its very cool imo)

-armybob

p.s. glad this is more pleasant

[SlurpDog]

I didn't know the DF2 used portals, although I had heard it did some pretty neat stuff. I've never seen it, though. I might have to check it out.

I've heard there's some company (CubeSoft or something lame like that) that's building games with CrystalSpace, although it seems kinda doubtful that they'll ever actually release anything. Still, it's fun to have a decent engine that's open source.

Yeah, Lithtech2 seems awesome. Let's hope they can actually deliver this time...

I think I will check out Heretic II. I've heard a lot of good things about it.

And yes, it's nice to have a civilized discussion instead of a flamewar.