More G400 problems

[Martin H]

Well just wanted to add that I have the same problems as everybody else (well some anyway)!

I just bought a G400DH and when I use busmaster the game freezes. I only tried Q3test 1.08 and NFS High Stakes. Even with busmastering disabled and every other trick described in this forum Q3test locks up.

i don't get it the only change I made was to replace my G200 with the G400 - I used the PD-uninstaller, shut down - replaced the card and installed the 5.13 drivers.

I sure hope Matrox will fix this soon, as it seems to be a problem for a lot of people.

My system:

ASUS P3B-F - Pentium III 450 - 128 MB RAM - WD Expert AC418000 18 GB Harddisk - Pioneer DVD103 - Soundblaster Live! Retail - Creative DVD Encore - Realtek 10/100 netcard and Zyxel Prestige 100IH

[Whyzzi]

... Interesting Problem. As usual be sure that the PCI slot next to the AGP/Matrox Graphics card is not in use. I would also recommend downloading the latest drivers for ALL your other periferals (Network, Sound, Printer, etc).

You might want to Check for a motherboard BIOS update, and verify that your BIOS settings match the specs on the card (such as AGP Appatature, AGP init first, etc).

One thing I noticed about earilier versions of Q3TEST (when I had my G200 Anyway) - do not run the sound in high quality.

Best of luck

Whyzzi

[Martin H]

I don't use the first 2 PCISlots!

I have the most recent bios (a week old)
And the most recet software and drivers for the Live! etc. I tried to remove all the cards - still no go.

Here is my observation:

The problem is Busmastering and OpenGL.

Busmastering defenitly has to be off for anything to work - if it is, then all non GL games runs - eg. I tried Q3Test, Kingpin and Halflife and they all crashed - in D3D Halflife runs just fine, Need For Speed - High Stakes also works (although not as fast as I would have expected).

I hope things get better in the new Powerdesk!

[majingohan]

ive been talking to matrox tech support for a while about the busmastering problem. one guy even blamed all the probs on the mobo. i dont think so. im not the only one with busmastering probs. im using a via mvp3 chipset on a jbond mobo. matrox has a beta of the 5.20 drivers available for developers only. tech support told me that the drivers should correct the busmatering problem and should be out really soon. lets hope so

[Spire]

Martin,

I've been wrestling with the same problem as you for several weeks now. Techdemo crashes immediately, 3D games crash almost immediately, and even the Windows desktop itself will eventually fill the screen with garbage and crash after anywhere from a few seconds to several hours of use.

I've spent more than $20 in long distance tech support calls to Matrox, establishing that I don't have an IRQ conflict, I don't have a driver problem, and all my hardware is flashed to the latest BIOS version. One Matrox tech I talked to (Michel) was able to "solve" my problem by having me disable bus mastering -- which did solve the crashing problem, but was of course completely unacceptable. He offered to replace my G400 with a new one as soon as it was back in stock -- which would take several weeks. I said I would think about it.

I called back to take Matrox up on the offer, and got another Matrox tech, who then suggested that my motherboard (an ABIT BP6) was "probably" the culprit, due to "bus noise". He told me that I would have to test my G400 on another motherboard before sending it in; otherwise, if my G400 were found not to be defective, I would be charged by the hour for the time it took the Matrox engineers to test my card!

So I borrowed a friend's computer, which also happened to have the same ABIT BP6 board. Stuck the G400 in, and... same problem. Crashes galore.

So I called Matrox again, and this time I was issued an RMA number. I arranged for cross-shipment of the new G400 as soon as it was in stock. I was told it would take up to two weeks for them to get it in stock. It's now been more than two weeks with no news (despite my repeated calls), but hey, who's counting?

In the meantime, I stumbled on a solution to the problem! All I have to do to get the G400 to run rock solid on my system is to force AGP to run at only 1x. Since my BIOS does not have an option to force 1x, I had to do it by using the ForceAGP1x <A HREF="http://www.murc.ws/Utils/PD5RegHacks.zip">PowerDesk 5 Registry hack</A>.

Now my G400 runs like a dream, with bus mastering enabled. I've played several 3D games for long stretches, and even left Techdemo running overnight with no problems whatsoever. Furthermore, all the benchmarks I've thrown at the G400 show no measurable difference between AGP2x and AGP1x performance (someone please correct me if I'm wrong here).

So before you give up on your G400, try what I did; it may just work!

BTW, I may still take Matrox up on their replacement offer. I don't know if I have a flaky G400 that doesn't run well at AGP2x, or if I have an incompatible motherboard that doesn't work well with the G400 at AGP2x, or even if (as majingohan says) it's just a driver problem that will be fixed Real Soon now.

I wish I could get my hands on the 5.20 beta driver before I spend even more to ship the G400 back. After all, I do happen to be a software developer; does anyone know whom I should ask?

[Scytale]

Hello Spire, I guess you read about my findings somewhere (I think I was the first to mention this very problem, and solution). If so, you will probably have read that there's a PowerDesk fix in the works that should solve this problem.

I don't think an RMA will solve anything - it's just not very likely that a bunch of boards show exactly the same failure, unless it's a hardware design flaw.

[Spire]

Actually, no, I didn't read about your findings anywhere. We must have solved the problem independently at the same time. Great minds think (or at least stumble around in the dark) alike! =)

As for the PowerDesk fix, yes, I linked to it in my post above.

[This message has been edited by Spire (edited 08-20-1999).]

[Scytale]

Such a waste

I wasn't refering to the 'ForceAGP1X' workaround - Haig told me Matrox is working on solving the problem itself (AGP2X crashes) in the PowerDesk drivers, therefore eliminating the need for a workaround. The fix should be in the next or following PowerDesk release.

[Spire]

Right. So do you (or anyone) know when PowerDesk 5.20 is going to be released? Or how to get hold of the beta for troubleshooting purposes?

[majingohan]

oh god no! the humanity!! i uninstalled the matrox 5.13 drivers (yes, i used the uninstaller) because i needed the stability (res/color didnt matter at the time). now i need the desktop space and color, so i tried to reinstall the 5.13 driver and.. hmm... interesting.. windows wont load. itll start up, display the wallpaper and then freeze, not just a lil lag for like 10 seconds, but like a mule, windows wont go. the mouse cursor works, but other than that, nothing works. i really hate having to switch between my mystique and g400. anyone know what might be the cause?

...matrox better fix these busmastering and stability probs in 5.20.......

[Scytale]

Spire, the most reliable answer from Matrox would be 'soon'. It's either that or something like 'July 7th'...

The fix may not even make it into 5.20 though. Here's the original thread, so you can read for yourself:

http://forums.gagames.com/forums/For...ML/002734.html

[Martin H]

Well it seems as if you need to disable AGPx2 as described earlier here - it's easy to check if that is the problem, if windows stops loading when it gets to Powerdesk then thats probably the reason.

Now for my own ongoing story - long story.

I finally have gotten it to work - sortof.

I plugged the G400 in my other machine:

AOpen AX6B+ (w. scsii controller on board)
P2-333 (o/c to 400)
64 MB LGS Ram
IBM 10G Eide-hdd
Plextor 820 cdwriter.

I plug in the G400 - Powerdesk is already instlled because the G200 sits there. Installs Powerdesk again - reboots - I try to run Q3test and it works!

All features are ON eg. busmastering and AGPx2 - I get excited and tries my 128 MB ram stick from the other machine, it works for a while and then suddenly the onscreen picture is totally garbeled with pixels flying everywhere - hmmmmmm - swaps the 64 stick back in and it works - for a while.... then it freezes.

Swaps everything back to my ASUS P3B-F and lo and behold it works the same way here - why didn't anybody tell me that OpenGL games only runs with busmastering ON!

Well I'm much happier now! Now I just need a fix for the busmasteing issue, so that I can play for more than 5-10 minutes before the machine freezes.

My tip for everyone with problem would be:

Turn of AGPx2
Turn on Busmastering (if you are gonna use OpenGL)

Martin

[Spire]

OK, looks like we've clearly established that disabling AGP2x (and then reenabling bus mastering) fixes the crashing problems for everyone so far.

Now, the $64,000 question: What exactly do we lose, in terms of real-world performance, by disabling AGP2x? Can anyone point to actual articles and/or benchmarks that show a distinct advantage to running the G400 at AGP2x (as opposed to AGP1x)? Because for the life of me, I really can't tell the difference.

[Spire]

BTW, Martin, OpenGL isn't the only thing that requires that bus mastering be enabled. The TV out feature (on the DualHead G400) also requires it, as does acceptable Direct3D performance. (Direct3D stuff will "run" with bus mastering disabled, but it won't be pretty!)

[Scytale]

Only when large textures are involved the difference begins to show. My 3DMark99 scores are very much identical for AGP2X and AGP1X, except for the results of the 16 and 32 MB Texture Rendering tests:

8MB: 99 (99 for AGP2X)
16MB: 49 (59 for AGP2X)
32MB: 20 (29 for AGP2X)

(1280x1024x32, P2@3.5x124, 128MB, aperture@128, MAX@170/227)