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  • Everyone join DF!

    Since Phase 2 started we have been gaining ground and we are at #9 as of this post! Keep it up!

  • #2
    So where do we go about getting the client loaded, and joining the matroxusers team? If there were some nice easy instructions for newbies like me then you might get some new faces
    DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by GNEP
      So where do we go about getting the client loaded, and joining the matroxusers team? If there were some nice easy instructions for newbies like me then you might get some new faces
      Read the readme file!

      June 13, 2003

      Using the Foldtraj client
      -------------------------

      System Requirements
      -------------------
      The Distributed Folding client will run on just about any computer, but
      there are a few minimal system requirements. Generally, your machine must
      have:

      233 MHz Pentium II processor (or equivalent) or faster
      (see CompatiblityNotes.txt for details)
      20 MB free hard drive space (and up to 100 MB additional temporary space)
      128 MB RAM
      An internet connection
      Colour display (optional)
      A supported operating system (Windows and most flavors of UNIX)

      UNIX Installation
      -----------------
      UNIX users will then have to un-gzip and un-tar the package, like so:

      > gzip -d distribfold*.gz
      > tar xvf distribfold*.tar

      A distribfold directory will be created with the required files in it. Go
      into that directory, and type "./foldit" and hit enter to begin the program.

      Windows Installation
      --------------------
      The downloaded file is a ZIP archive so simply use WinZip or PKUNZIP to decompress
      it to an empty directory on your machine. The file should be called
      distribfold-current-win9x.zip or something similar. Once this is done,
      browse to the directory you unzipped the files to and double-click
      on the "foldit" icon (the file "foldit.bat") to automatically open up a DOS box and
      begin the program. You may wish to make a shortcut to the program on your
      Desktop for quicker access.

      What does it do?
      ----------------
      The Foldtraj client is part of the Distributed Folding Project, an
      experiment in distributed computing through the internet to help solve the
      Protein Folding Problem, one of the computationally intensive problems facing
      scientists of the 21st century. The program probabilistically generates
      protein structures, and uploads them to our server every once in a while. A
      small, colorful protein will build itself up on your screen as the program
      generates structures so you can see how many you have made and how fast it is
      progressing. When you want to use your computer again, simply hit 'Q' and the
      program will end (or even better, leave it running in the background).

      Signing up
      ----------
      We require you register in order to participate. To register, simply visit:



      and click on the High-Flyers link. Fill in your e-mail address, Organization
      and a password. You may also optionally tell us a bit more about yourself
      by filling in the appropriate fields, such as your name, address and
      location. We assure you that this information will remain strictly
      confidential and will not be used or sold to marketing agencies. On this
      site you will also find links to a wealth of information about the
      Distributed Folding Project, and the algorithm used by the Foldtraj client to
      generate protein folds.

      Getting your handle
      -------------------
      A handle is an 8 character code that is needed so that the server can track
      structures made by your computer. Once you have registered, your handle
      will appear on the web page, and you will shortly receive an e-mail
      containing your handle. No two participants will have the same handle.
      Make sure you keep this e-mail message for future reference.

      Running the Program
      -------------------
      The first time you run the program, you will be asked to enter your handle.
      This is the 8-character name that was e-mailed to you when you registered and
      identifies any files your computer sends to our server as being generated by
      you. Only proteins generated by a user with a valid handle will be accepted
      by the server, so enter it exactly as shown in the e-mail you receive. You
      may use this handle on as many machines as you like, it is simply a way of
      identifying yourself in an anonymous fashion.

      Following this, you will be asked a series of questions to help configure the
      program and customize it to your needs. Simply answer the question as
      appropriate, or if unsure just hit Enter to accept the default choices.
      These options can be changed later as outlined towards the end of this
      document. After answering the questions, the program will exit.

      The next time you start the program it will remember your handle and settings
      but if you need to change your handle for some reason, you can do so by
      pressing 'C' when prompted just after starting the program, and then waiting a few
      seconds. The program uploads any remaining protein folding data in its buffer when
      it starts.

      Changes to the Algorithm since Phase I
      --------------------------------------
      If you have been using the software previously, you will notice some changes to
      the operation of the software now. The structures are now built in 'generations',
      and the program always continues from the point where it left off, when it is
      stopped and restarted. There are four steps to each generation:

      1) Generate a set of structures (as in Phase I)
      2) Minimize the energy of the best structure generated in the set
      3) Upload the results to the server
      4) Build a 'trajectory distribution' for the next generation based on the
      structure from step 2

      The trajectory distribution in step 4 is a map of protein conformational
      space. In this case, it is designated in such a way that all structures
      sampled in generation X are very similar in conformation to the best
      structure (from step 2) in generation X-1. Thus while generation zero consists
      of 10000 completely random conformations, the following generations then all
      depend somewhat on the best structure out of these 10000. Generations other
      than zero are much smaller, consisting of just 50 structures. This is because
      all are fairly similar in conformation and less variation will occur. This
      process repeats until generation 250 is reached, at which point the 'set' is
      said to be complete, and the whole process starts over with a new generation
      zero. This approach is more likely to lead to realistic, compact protein
      shapes and is expected to find native-like conformations much faster than the
      previous technique of brute force random sampling used in phase I.

      There are a number of side effects to the new approach that you should be
      aware of however. Firstly, only the best structure from each generation is
      kept and uploaded, so uploading only occurs at the end of each generation
      and never partway through (except for uploading buffered data of generations
      which have already been completed, which can occur when you start up the
      program). Also, at the end of each generation, a progress bar will appear
      as the best structure is energy minimized. You may quit the program during
      this process, and when you restart it will begin the energy minimization
      from the start again but otherwise no work will be lost. The minimization
      should only take 1-10 minutes depending on the structure and your computer
      speed. Following this, another progress bar will appear as it builds the
      trajectory distribution for the next generation. Again you may exit at any
      time without problem, and it will start over at making the trajectory
      distribution next time you run the program. This should generally take 2
      or 3 minutes at most. Once complete, it will begin folding the new
      generation of structures.

      Note that because generations other than zero are not random, but are
      confined to be 'near neighbour' structures to the previous best structure,
      the protein chain has less freedom where it can build, and can thus
      sometimes get 'stuck' for a while. When this occurs, a counter appears
      at the top of the screen so you know it is still thinking. Eventually
      after a set amount of tries if it is still stuck, it will give up and
      start building that structure again. If it repeatedly gets stuck, it
      will automatically increase what we term 'laxness' parameters. This is
      a set of three numbers which affect the tradeoff between structural
      integrity and building speed. Thus when laxness is low, structures have
      good geometry and few if any atomic overlaps, but could get stuck a lot.
      When laxness is high, structures are able to avoid getting stuck by
      permitting a few geometry violations or atomic overlap. Obviously the
      goal is to keep laxness as low as possible while still avoiding getting
      permanently stuck. Laxness will keep increasing until the protein
      eventually gets unstuck. Laxness will decrease slightly at the start
      of each new generation, but otherwise once increased, will retain the
      new value for future structures as well to avoid further delays.

      Lastly, as the protein is now following a directed pathway, you will be
      able to view a 'protein folding movie' along with your best structure,
      when you log on to the main web site, provided you have installed the
      Cn3D structure viewing software, available from NCBI.
      (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Structure/CN3D/cn3d.shtml)
      According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless...

      Comment


      • #4
        Joining a Team
        --------------
        If you wish to collaborate with others, you can now do so AFTER you have
        registered. Simply login with your e-mail and password at our website, and you
        will be able to select from a list of possible teams to join. You will also be
        able to choose a Username for yourself, which will be used to identify you, along
        with your Organization, on statistics pages and such. Each team has its own page
        of statistics automatically generated for it every few minutes, so even if you are
        by yourself you may want to create a team so you'll get a team page made for you.

        Checking Progress
        -----------------
        Once you have registered, you may login using the handle or e-mail and
        password you are registered with. From here, you will be able to view your
        total contribution to-date to the project, and the overall progress. You may
        also download the best structure you have created, and the true protein
        structure, and view them with the molecular viewing program 'Cn3D', available
        for download for most platforms at:

        Cn3D ('see in 3-D') is a structure and sequence alignment viewer for NCBI databases that allows viewing of 3-D structures along with sequence and structure alignments.


        This will allow you to see how you are doing compared to others. The
        information available here may change over time, so check back often!

        Communication between Client and Server
        ---------------------------------------
        After every 'generation' of structures (several hours), information about the
        structures generated is uploaded to our server. This includes their size,
        similarity to the native structure, energy score and certain structural
        characteristics. Also, the complete structure for the conformer which is
        most similar to the native that was generated will be sent and stored on our
        server. This ensures that all the best structures will be saved for later
        inspection and analysis (unfortunately, we do not have space to store 10
        billion complete protein structures!). At no time is any information ever
        sent to or stored on your computer other than an OK or ERROR response from
        the server when your computer sends us data. Also, the generated structures
        and a log file are stored temporarily on your computer until they are sent
        to the server, at which point they are automatically removed from your
        machine. This amounts to approximately 20K of data uploaded to our server
        approximately once every few hours. This should transfer in under ten
        seconds even via today's slowest internet connections.

        The client will also check automatically for new versions of itself, and when
        one becomes available, an update will automatically be downloaded and
        installed (after obtaining your approval first). All updates are digitally
        signed and encrypted to prevent unauthorized updates being sent. If an
        update is downloaded and NOT digitally signed, you will be advised as such
        and warned not to proceed with the update.

        Otherwise, the new version of the client will then continue running without
        further intervention required. If for some reason the update cannot be
        downloaded or installed, you will be told, and either the program will
        terminate, or it will continue and try again later. You can always manually
        download the latest version at http://www.distributedfolding.org/

        Possible Problems
        -----------------
        A constantly updated list of known bugs and workarounds can also be found at:

        so check here first if you suspect there is a bug in your version of the
        program. To check your version of the program, run the 'foldtrajlite'
        executable, with no arguments, at a DOS or UNIX prompt. The first line
        should have the compilation date in it.

        Due to the nature of the program, an internet connection is required to send
        structure data to our server. The program is smart enough to detect if the
        network is down and cannot contact the server for some reason. In such cases,
        it will buffer any such data and try to send the unsent data along with new
        data after completing the next unit of work. Warning messages may also be
        displayed on the client screen if network problems or other problems are
        encountered.

        Be careful to enter your handle exactly as given. If you make a mistake, the
        client may refuse to run. Especially be sure not to confuse 0 with o,
        and l with 1. If you find a mistake, you can change your handle as described
        above under 'Running the Program'.

        We have also observed that strange network problems can be caused by caching
        http proxy servers. If your ISP uses one, it may possibly interfere with
        communication to our server, so if you experience problems and can bypass
        the proxy, doing so may fix the problem.

        Using a Proxy Server
        --------------------
        If you don't know what a proxy server is, you probably don't need to read
        this section. If your network is set up to block most outgoing traffic on
        port 80, the client may not be able to connect successfully to our server
        (for example, if you require a proxy server to browse the web). If you
        suspect you are in this category, simply create a small text file called
        "proxy.cfg" in the same directory as the client program (and this readme).
        In it type two lines; the first line is the name of your proxy server and
        the second is the proxy port (often 8080). If this file is found by the
        client at startup, it will try to connect to our server using the proxy
        specified. Here is a sample proxy.cfg:

        proxy.foobar.com
        8080

        If your proxy server requires Basic Authentication, simply add your
        username and password after the port number, like so:

        proxy.foobar.com
        8080
        username
        password

        If your proxy server uses NTLM Authentication replace username above
        with username.DOMAIN where DOMAIN is your NT Domain/workgroup name.

        Non-interactive Auto-update
        ---------------------------
        For your security, you will be asked for confirmation before any updates
        are download and installed on your computer. All updates are digitally
        signed and so it is fairly safe to always allow digitially signed updates
        to be installed. A malicious user would have to compromise the private
        encryption key in order to "spoof" an update and make it appear to come
        from us. Thus you have the option of allowing the client to automatically
        accept and install digitally signed updates (and automatically refuse
        unsigned ones). By default this feature is disabled and you must give
        your consent for downloads to begin, because we feel the choice should be
        that of the user. To enable this feature and allow automatic updating
        without your intervention required, simply create a text file in the same
        directory as the client, called "autoupdate.cfg" with the the digit 1 on a
        single line. If you change your mind, simply remove the file, and it will
        revert back to its default behaviour the next time you run it.
        According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless...

        Comment


        • #5
          Quiet Mode
          ----------
          To run the client in quiet mode (i.e. no output whatsoever to the terminal),
          simply edit the foldit script (foldit.bat on Windows) and add "-qt" (without
          the quotes) to the end of the line containing "foldtrajlite -f protein -n
          native". This may be useful if you are, for example, starting jobs remotely.
          You can then terminate jobs by removing foldtrajlite.lock or hitting the 'Q'
          key (the latter works on Windows only however). It is recommended you select
          "E-mail me when updates are available" on the logged-in page at
          http://www.distributedfolding.org if you are running in quiet mode, or else
          you won't be aware when a new update is required. Alternatively, see
          non-interactive auto-update above. To check progress while in quiet mode, a
          file called "progress.txt" will be written to the directory where the program
          is installed so you can monitor its progress still. You may customize this
          further by adding '-g ###' where ### is a number, to the foldit script.
          This is how often (in number of structures) you want this progress.txt to
          be updated, to avoid excessive disk writing. If you put '-g 0' this will
          disable the progress.txt output altogether.

          Disabling Network access/Running offline
          ----------------------------------------
          If you are running on a machine behind a strong firewall, or a machine with
          modem access to the internet, or no access at all, you may wish to tell the
          client not to access the network. In this case, all attempts to access the
          internet will be bypassed. Simply add '-i f' to the foldit script as
          described above for other optional features. Eventually you will need to
          either connect to the internet and remove the '-i f' option, or copy the
          entire directory to another machine which is connected to the internet to
          allow results to be uploaded. Then after the upload, copy the remnants
          back to the original machine to a fresh directory to continue folding (and
          delete the old directory from the offline machine now that it has been
          uploaded).

          Upload Only Option
          ------------------
          If you add '-u t' to the foldit script, the client will perform all normal
          startup procedures such as checking for new versions and uploading buffered
          data, but then it will exit before starting to generate any structures.
          This may be useful for people making 3rd party interfaces to the software
          or writing other sorts of scripts. The 'average' user probably will not use
          this option.

          Changing the priority of the client [Advanced Users]
          ----------------------------------------------------
          You can change the default priority of the client by modifying the foldit
          script as described above for quiet mode and increasing the buffer size.
          Simply add the switch '-p ##' where ## is the desired priority. This can
          range from -20 (extremely aggressive; will pre-empt most other tasks) to
          the default of 20 (very passive, only runs when the CPU is idle). On UNIX
          the full range from -20 to 20 is available. Windows defines three process
          priority levels: Low, Normal and High. Within each of these are several
          thread priority levels which allow 'fine tuning'. Thus the same range
          [-20, 20] is used on Windows and mapped accordingly. Use 15 for Low, 0
          for Normal and -15 for High on Windows. Other values will more finely
          tune the priority further.

          Changing Upload Frequency [Advanced Users]
          ------------------------------------------
          You can no longer control the upload frequency, it is fixed to once per
          generation of structures.

          Running as a service [Windows NT/2000/XP only]
          -----------------------------------------------
          The Windows version of the client can be set up to run as a normal Windows NT
          service, so that it will start automatically whenever your computer starts up
          and run in the background until you shut down. Structures will be uploaded
          every generation still, and buffered for later upload at shutdown (so your
          shutdown procedure will not be delayed). It runs at low priority so other
          tasks will push it out of the way and so it should not noticeably slow your
          machine down. Be warned that it will only upload after making a generation
          of structures (a few hours, depending on your machine speed) so make sure you
          are connected to the internet when using the client as a service. Also,
          updates will automatically be accepted (provided they are digitally signed) in
          this mode (regardless of whether autoupdate.cfg is present or not) and a large
          amount of data may be buffered if you do not connect to the network for a long
          period of time. To check progress while running as a service, a file called
          "progress.txt" will be written to the directory where the program is installed
          so you can monitor its progress still.

          To setup the program to work as a service:

          1. Open a DOS prompt to the directory you installed the client.
          2. If you have not already done so, run the program once (by typing 'foldit'
          in the directory where the software is installed) and enter your
          8 character handle and answer the other configuration questions it
          asks.
          3. Type: foldtrajlite /install (and hit Enter)
          4. The next time you reboot your machine it will start automatically

          To remove the service:

          1. Go to Administrative Tools -> Services
          2. Find and Stop the service called Distributed Folding Project
          3. Open a DOS prompt to the directory you installed the client.
          4. Type: foldtrajlite /remove (and hit Enter)
          5. It will not be run on your machine automatically anymore

          You may install a second instance of the service by changing step 3 above
          from 'foldtrajlite /install' to 'foldtrajlite /install2'. Similarly, to
          remove this second instance, change step 4 to 'foldtrajlite /remove2'.
          Note that if you wish to run two instances, you must install two full
          copies of the software in separate directories and install one using
          /install and the other /install2. Not following this procedure correctly
          will result in unpredictable behaviour. Also there is no benefit to
          installing two copies of the service unless you are using a dual-processor
          machine.

          Configuring the service [Windows NT/2000/XP only]
          -------------------------------------------------
          You should have a SERVICE.CFG file in your client directory after
          following the above steps. If it is not there, remove and re-install
          the service. The first line of this file must contain a number
          identifying whether it is copy 1 or copy 2 of the service. Next, you
          may include any of the following options in any order if you wish:

          useram=1 makes use of extra RAM for improved speed (see -rt option
          elsewhere in this readme); default is useram=0
          priority=### where -20<=###<=20 sets the priority of the task just like
          the -p option (20=passive, -20=aggressive); default is 20
          progress=### where 0<=###<=100 sets the update interval for the
          progress.txt file, like the -g option (0=disable)
          default is 50
          connect=0 disables internet usage - use this if you are on dial-up
          or temporarily unable to access the internet for some
          reason; you must eventually remove this to upload your
          data, but your work will be buffered until then; works
          the same as the -if option; default is connect=1
          uploadonly=1 behaves as the -ut option, instructing the program to
          upload all buffered work and then terminate. Do NOT
          combine with the connect=0 option! Default is
          uploadonly=0

          Running Non-interactively or on a Cluster [Advanced Users]
          ----------------------------------------------------------
          You may wish to run the client in a mode requiring absolutely no user
          interaction. This is especially convenient if you want to run it on, for
          example, a Beowulf Cluster. For your convenience we have made it easy to do
          so. See also the section above on "Non-interactive auto-update".

          To run on a cluster computer (and we encourage you to do so if you have
          access to such a set of machines):
          According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless...

          Comment


          • #6
            1. Decompress the package on one node as described above, and add proxy
            information as described above if necessary. Run the program once by
            typing 'foldit' as the command prompt, and enter your 8-character
            handle that you received upon registration. Answer the other configuration
            questions as well. Be sure to answer 'N' to 'Run in quiet mode (no output
            to terminal)?' so you can see output for step 1a.

            1a. Try running the client on the node to ensure it starts without any input
            from you. If any updates are available, for example, you will have to
            give it permission to download and install them. Once you have ensured your
            client is up to date, manually edit the foldit script (foldit.bat on Windows)
            and on the line containing 'foldtrajlite -f protein -n native', either change
            the '-qf' option to '-qt', or add '-qt' (if there is no '-qf' present). Then
            proceed to step 2.

            2. Now distribute the directory to the other nodes of your cluster (presumably
            you have some script(s) to efficiently do this). Each node will need a
            complete copy of the client software.

            3. Now start the "foldit" script on each machine (again, you presumably have
            some scripts to do this efficiently. It will run until you stop it as
            described in step 4, or until a mandatory update is released (in which case
            it will NOT be automatically installed (unless you have enabled
            non-interactive autoupdate, described earlier), the client will simply exit
            once you have performed step 4; you must then manually run the client on a
            node, give permission to install the update, and then go back to step 2).

            4. To halt the client on one or all the nodes, simply delete the file
            "foldtrajlite.lock" which will be found in the same directory as all the other
            files. The program will then terminate gracefully (could take up
            to two minutes but normally only a couple of seconds, so please be patient).

            Making it run faster [Advanced Users]
            -------------------------------------
            The software can be made to run roughly twice as fast, at the cost of using
            more memory. Normally the software uses about 25MB RAM while running, but
            if you add the '-rt' option to the foldit script, the client will then use
            up to 150MB RAM, but run twice as fast. Make sure you have enough free
            RAM (and NOT virtual memory) before using this option or you will not benefit
            from the speed improvement. If you are running the Windows NT/2000/XP
            service mode of the client, edit the service.cfg file (you may have to
            /remove and then /install the service if this file is missing in your
            folding directory). The service.cfg normally contains a single line with a
            number (to tell it whether it is copy #1 or copy #2 of the service). Add a
            second line to this file with the text 'useram=1' (without the quotes) in
            order to tell the service to use up to 150MB RAM as well.

            Running a benchmark [Advanced Users]
            ------------------------------------
            At the request of many users, we have incorporated a benchmarking scheme
            directly into the client software. This is a standard test, which should
            always return the same results, when run on the same machine, and serves
            as a rough indicator as to the relative performance of the software on
            that machine. To tun the benchmark, simply open a DOS/UNIX window and
            at the command prompt, type 'foldtrajlite -bench' and hit enter. Make
            sure no other programs are running at the same time if you wish to get
            an accurate reading. It will run for up to 15 minutes (depending how
            slow or fast your machine is) and then output a table of four numbers
            like so:

            Usr time Sys time
            -------- --------
            Maketrj 8.030 1.050
            Foldtraj 47.200 13.460

            These are timings, in seconds, with smaller being better (faster). Total
            CPU time is the sum of Usr and Sys time. The Foldtraj timings correspond
            to the building of actual structures, while the Maketrj timings are
            somewhat less important and reflect the time take to make new trajectory
            distributions at the end of each generation.

            About the Client
            ----------------
            Sure, we could give you a big flashy 3-D interactive screensaver showing the
            actual protein being built up and letting you rotate it around in 3-D space as
            it is being built, and it would probably look really cool. In fact we have
            done this for Windows (avaiable on the same site you downloaded this client).
            But we want to spend your CPU cycles where they count, in the actual
            scientific computation. Hence we recommend that even Windows users use this
            text-based client instead. Here we have opted for a more "abstract"
            representation of the folding protein, using color ASCII art. While not
            looking like a true protein, it should still give you an idea of what is going
            on inside your computer's head while the program is running. Each structure
            looks completely different, and each one is only a single sample of an
            extremely enormous conformational space. As a bonus, since the client runs in
            text mode, you can even run it through a Telnet session or a dumb terminal!

            Final Words
            -----------
            Please visit the official Trajectory Directed Ensemble Sampling (TraDES) web
            site at:



            to learn more about protein folding and Foldtraj. Visit the Distributed
            Folding Project web site for more info about this client:



            Please direct any technical support questions, comments or suggestions to us at:

            trades@mshri.on.ca
            According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless...

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh and use dfGUI http://gilchrist.ca/jeff/dfGUI/
              According to the latest official figures, 43% of all statistics are totally worthless...

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks Guru! Might give it a try when I get a chance...
                DM says: Crunch with Matrox Users@ClimatePrediction.net

                Comment


                • #9
                  "As of this post"?

                  Hmmm.... we've dropped down a little in only a few days?

                  I'd better join in the fun to keep up the MURC image then.

                  J1NG

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It was bound to have fluctuations for the first couple of days. Some people need to manually switch their clients over. We just happen to be mostly automatic.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Welcome aboard J1NG!
                      Why would I send my pants to New Jersey?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thank you.

                        Ah, no wonder why we've dropped behind.

                        Since I'm unemployed right now, you've only got my free home machines. (Damn stupid graduation)

                        2xAMD MP 2200+ 1GB DDR W2K SP2 (Use RAM)
                        P4 1.8 1GB DDR WXPPro SP1 (Use RAM)

                        Hmmm... looks like I'm about to overtake Novdid by tonight if Novdid doesn't join the race again.

                        J1NG

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Ehhhhhhh no, not another person to spank me in scores!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Relax! These machines are only on when I'm awake. Which means only for 12 hours each day are they running. It'll take me at least till Friday to reach your current score.

                            Hmmm, there's something weird at the folding team statistics page. According to my login section there's 33 members of matroxusers, yet it only lists 31. Who's the other two?

                            And it looks like TomNuttall has joined in too!

                            J1NG

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                            • #15
                              And it looks like TomNuttall has joined in too!
                              I haven't been crunching for a while, and I logged on to the stats to see how everything is going on and discovered all my points have dissappeared!.
                              So I will do a few for old time's sake

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