Does the Pope visit the MURC?

[Paddy]

What i really like about the soap box is that no topic is the same.
Interesting read!

[Jorden]

A true religon should be open to any questions and should be able to change the rulings if there found to be wrong.

Aren't all religions open to some questions and changes? Not as rigorious that they would change the whole of that religion in one go, but as Jason pointed out, the Catholics weren't able to read a Bible on their own without guidance from a priest. Ofcourse, at that time it can also have been a shortage of Bibles and people that could read.

In every religion there are those who follow the rules and live by the book, but there are also people asking questions and in the end starting their own sub-culture in that religion/church.

In what states in the US is it still forbidden to educate about how man was made, outside from what is said in the Bible? (If this is still the case) And how long ago was it that the other states started following the evolution theory?

Reading the Bible or Koran (spelling?) or other Holy Book, usually gives more questions then answers. Maybe that in the future some of those questions can be answered (if more parts of the Dead Sea scrolls are found and translated), but we'll always be left with questions.

That's probably all too human

Jorden.

[ALBPM]

On the lighter side The one thing I don't tolerate very well is the door to door solicitation by various religious groups such as Jehova Witneses and Mormons. At one point several years ago this one group of Jehova's witneses would ring my doorbell every Saturday morning like clockwork. For awhile I tolerated this and would get into discussions with them on various religious issues.
Finally I had enough. The last time they rang my doorbell and got me out of bed with a bad hangover I answered the door with my shoulder length hair looking quite wild and no shirt. I calmly told them to excuse me for a moment as I was just getting ready to sacrifice a goat in the backyard...LOL

Man, I never saw anyone run as fast as this group did, dropping their pamphlets and bumping into my car in the driveway...LOL

They have not been back since

Paul

[Paddy]

Paul,
Ever seen the film Dragnet?

[ALBPM]

LOL... Sure did Paddy

Paul

[Himself]

I think religion is only as good as the society it's meant for, most of them are so hopelessly out of date nobody can relate to them on a personal level. One doesnt' want you to eat meat on Fridays, another doesn't want you to ever eat Ham, others think cows are sacred, others insist on sacrificing cows and letting the blood drip onto the naked virgin sacrifice, I mean, WTF? I blame public education, if everyone were still ignorant peasants, religion would still be worthwhile. Oddly, enough, it's those areas of the world where people are still basically uneducated peasants that religion is still marketable.

Biggest mistake the Church made was trying to explain everything, they should have stuck to Latin masses (except where Latin is the native tongue then they should have used Chineese) and kept everything mysterious. Second biggest mistake was trying to fix the doctrine after the fact. The thing about religion is that you can't debug it after it's out there, people insist on using the earliest betas they can find to be more in touch with the original goals of the author.

[Jorden]

contradictions Pauly:

On the lighter side

...and got me out of bed with a bad hangover

Too much 3 days old Scotch.

Before anyone else starts chanting it, <u>Thank God It's Friday !</u>

Jord.

[Paddy]

Amen brother!

[HedsSpaz]

ThePit: Who was the last person to speak to God anyway.

I think I may be shooting myself in the foot by saying this, but it was a man by the name of Emanuel Swedenborg who lived in Sweden during the mid to late 1700's. The Lord came to him and spent approx. 20 years taking hime on tours through heaven and hell. In between tours he was told to write down what he saw.
(I already sound like a nut don't I)
Anyway, this is what I believe. He wrote 27 volumes explaining what things in the Bible actually meant, what heaven wasw like, what hell was like, what the book of Revelation is actually talking about, and most importantly in my opinion, what a TRUE marriage is supposed to be.

Again, this is all what I believe. There is a small but growing church that has taken these books to been divinely inspired and thus the Third Testament. There are several branches of this church, the largest is the General Church of the New Jerusalem. This is the church that I am a member of.

Now, there are several reasons why I have CHOSEN(that means out of my own free will, for all you "free thought" people out there) to believe the doctrines of this church. First, like I stated above, it teaches what a TRUE marriage should be. Basically, marriage lasts forever, you may not find the right person in this life, but when you go to heaven, you will. This person will be the perfect mate for you, you will be so deeply in love, you will get those wonderful little shivers up and down your spine every time you look at that person(figuritively anyway, you get the meaning of that statement I hope.)
Second, it teaches complete religious freedom, ie. ANYONE can go to heaven. There is some divine truth in EVERY religion that has ever existed. If you have lived a good USEFUL life, you will end up in heaven.
Third, we have a strong and detailed belief in divine providence. God is always watching over us. People commonly get hung up on this one. The most common question is, if God is all loving, why would he allow so much pain and suffereing, and for cheats and liars to advance in life? The key word is allow, he permits evil to happen. God has given us complete freedom to choose whether we want to go to heaven, or go to hell, to love him and the neighbor, or to love ourselves and the world. If God were to force people to belive in him, or to disallow evil, then we wouldn't be free, we would be robots, and not only could we not love him, but he could not love us, because we would not be human.
Fourth, and by far the most important, there is ONE, got that? There is ONE AND ONLY ONE GOD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH WHO IS THE LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST! Like I said in my first post, the biggest flaw of the Catholic church was the Nicean creed which started the whole trinity sillieness.

If you actually made it through all of that I'll be awfully impressed. I probably weirded some of you out, I hope you don't think I'm a hypocrite and trying to force me beliefs on you all. Sometimes I get a little carried away. At the very least I hope you can at least see why this church appeals to me. It would take me a very long time to explain all of the details of the church, and I know that sounds very daunting, but it is worth it, it is very worth it. When I read the stuff that is in these books, I can just feel the truth flowing through me. In all 27 of the books, there is not a single contradiction, not even once. For me anyway, I know that it is true. If anyone wants me to explain more of it, I am more than happy to do so, but rest assured that if you don't, I will never ramble on at this length about it again.

Cheers all,
Ian

[Jorden]

Holly,

I mean, there must be an ordinary "Vatican Town" or something, with shoe stores and diners, right? Maybe I'm wrong...

You might want to look at some links. http://www.vatican-city.com

but the official page is http://www.vatican.va/

Tell me if you can find a radio-shack or shoe-shop or diner or whatever

I'll take you there then for our vacation

Jord.

[Paddy]

Sounds romantic...

[Jorden]

Ian, thanks for the insight on what you believe in. I won't attack you, although I have some questions, yes. Which I won't ask here as of yet, I'd better re-read what you wrote and pen those questions down before submitting them (maybe through email).

The story of Emanuel Swedenborg does show a lot of similarities to what happened to Nostradamus, with the only difference that Nostradamus couldn't write what God told him, because he could be tortured by the then ruling Inquisition, so he wrote it in a combination of French, Provencal, Greek, Latin, and Italian written as riddles, puns, anagrams, and epigrams, which are complex and demand that the potential interpreter have knowledge in a wide range of subjects.

Many people from the 16th century through modern times have been enthralled by the prophecies and have tried to make sense of them. Some quatrains could fit descriptions of just about any era. Others are more exact, and it is those quatrains that have established the well-earned reputation of Nostradamus as one of the world's greatest prophets.

(ripped something from a page there )

Since before my father died, I don't believe in a real God, or in a real Heaven.

My father died 5 years and about 1.5 months ago at the age of 53. Way too early for his age, or so we see it.

Yes, maybe God summoned him away, but I think more of his soul being spent. That it needed to go to the underworld again to replenish enough this time to seek its place in a more useful body.

Not that I believe in reincarnation. Not the mind is being transplanted with the soul, but only the soul in itself, after it has rested for enough time and replenished its energy. My dad's soul could've been without enough energy when he received it, because he was borne during WWII (1941). Lots of people were dying at that time.

And yes, I have talked about this with the pastor of my church, and no, he didn't try to talk me out of it. That's what I meant with churches becoming more free about technical beliefs. One doesn't have to believe in a heaven and a hell, but can still be part of the same Church !!

I think I'll go sit with Ian in the nut-corner by now.. But I hope you all will treat me with the same respect as anyone coming out for his and her beliefs in this thread.

This is becoming a very interesting thread
Not one I could've envisioned when I started it.

Jord.


[This message has been edited by Jorden (edited 12 May 2000).]

[ALBPM]

Friggin Goat just drank all my 3 day old scotch...LOL

T.G.I.F

Pauly

[The PIT]

Are there G400's in heaven?

Anyway didn't that crookied tory Mp Jonathan Aiken have a conversation with God via his watch while he was in Jail?

[Bixler]

LOL Pauly!

Stop this thread right HERE!

Religion and Politics, the dynamite of friendships and conversation.