Bizarre Human Ev. question

[FaRaN]

Himself,
you continued my statement perfectly, and that is why the adam/eve thing just makes less sense than Darwins theory. I just don't have the ability to translate my thoughts in english language (I'm Dutch and this is the best I can do) and therefore kept it short. Thanks

[HollyBerri]

Why does it have to be "God or Evolution"?

Is there some kind of contradiction in thinking that "God, Creator of the <u>entire, incredibly diverse Universe</u> (much of which we don't even know about or understand)" errrr...created "evolution" (and that the morning and the evening were the third, or fourth, or fifth day-- whichever one would be relevant)?

Is it just me?

---------------
Holly

[Ees]

I'm not going to claim to be an expert on this, so I googled around a bit.

The "I'm feeling lucky" button took me right to the Frequently Encountered Criticisms in Evolution vs. Creationism page. Also, be sure to read the Talk Origins Archive, especially their extensive FAQ collection.

For another opinion, visit Creation vs. Evolution.

Of course, everybody decides for themselves what they believe in, but I know what side of the argument I'm on.

Martin

[cjolley]

This is the kind of creationist argument that drives me crazy!
Gurm, I am very surprised you would say this.
1. "Cats and Dogs are similar, right?" - OK

2. "Therefore they must have a common ancestor." - Why? Sharks & Tuna are similar and haven't had a common ancestor for hundreds of millions of years.

3. "We should be able to find BOATLOADS of remains of creatures that are increasingly coglike (or datlike, if you prefer) as we go back in time." - The fossil record only contains a tiny fraction of the history of life.

4."But we can't. We find different cats and different dogs, dating back thousands of years. But no convergence." - This is simply not true from first to last. Unless, of course, you insist on limiting your search to a couple of thousand years.

The problem with arguing about it is that the creationists fill their statements with so much drivel that it has to be disputed line by line. It's very discouraging.

chuck

(Maybe I'm overly sensitive after teaching in a school where the administrators wanted me to inject their religious beliefs into my science lessons.)

PS http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/...tionreply.html
and http://books.nap.edu/html/creationism/


[This message has been edited by cjolley (edited 10 June 2000).]

[Gurm]

Holly, you've actually hit where I stand a bit closer than I was willing to go...

No, I don't think that you just had one man and one woman and kapowie!

Obviously that doesn't work, genetically - unless the same almighty being suspended the laws of genetics for a few thousand years, which is unlikely.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Paddy]

I can see your point Gurm,
apparently humans are much more closely related to monkeys, than lions are to tigers. - and they are still cat species.

I would question the link between dog/cat though?

[dZeus]

hey! did they tell you?

Approximately 10 million years ago, an alien civilisation discovered this planet. It perfectly fullfilled their requirements for a world-wide genetical test-lab/zoo. As an experiment, they cloned a few million numbers of each species, which they collected from many differents planets they visited, and set them out on this planet. They wanted to prove some kind of theory that they themselves evolved from other species, being more close to humans than to themselves. Now, this experiment has been going on since then, and they visited the earth to inspect progress, they dissected animals, conduced experiments, etc... At a certain point they saw that the human species was developing different civilisations. At first, they tried to make contact, to direct the evolution of those civilisations into their own. Later on, the humans became very xenophobe, and through advances in their civilisation, what we call science and stuff, they became even vulnerable to the alien visitors. So they (the alien species) gave up, and only visited places where they were sure of no human would harm them. Then they saw the human species almost completely destroying each other civilisations, with no much reason to do that. They conducted from that fact, that the human species was not a smart as they hoped; they did stupid things all the time, and tghe visitors concluded that humans would never reach the level of the alien civilisation, not now, not in a million years. At that point the alien visitors gave up the experiment.

Hell, was I bored.... like the story?

[Gurm]

Cjolley:

I say what all skeptics say...

SHOW ME.

Show me a single skeleton of a progenitor to man. Just one. There aren't any.

Honestly. Go check. All the so-called "skeletons" turn out to be fragments from what is most likely a deformed person.

And if it takes "millions of years", then you quickly outstrip life on earth! Go check the numbers, they don't match. If it takes a few million years to evolve a dog and a cat from a common ancestor, and the earth is only X million years old (X could be large but it wouldn't matter, since we're talking about exponential time to evolve from a single-celled organism)... then you don't have enough time.

Do the math. It doesn't work.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[Jorden]

I've had a complaint from the original poster of this thread... why has it become so serious, he asked me

So why has it become so serious??

Jord, unable to sleep through this Thunderstorm... Holly, by Golly, you're missing something

[cjolley]

Sleep tight Jorden,
It got serious because it is such an interesting and fundamental question.
Discussions about such things are good.
Besides which, having been out of college for 20 years I don't get to do it much any more.

And Dimitri, I don't think you're in much danger of waking up a different color tomorow, whatever color you are today.

chuck

PS The Day the Earth Stood Still starts in a couple of minutes. We're going to watch it.
My wife says it is the origin of the sixties!

[Himself]

I've always went along with Holly actually, if there was a devine intervention it would be in sparking life not hiring actors and giving them scripts while posting 120MPH signs in front of brick walls with paintings of tunnels on them. Beep! Beep!

Existance is kinda recursive, go back far enough and you have to assume there was something that started it all, if you want to call that a God, I guess you could. Not sure why you have to call it anything or worry about it until you have to, or if you have to.

I think people are confusing the soap box with the pulpit, lot of religious stuff here lately.

[Randallito]

I'm not worried about changing colors Chuck, just worried I'll become a cucumber...

It would be nice though to wake up and have hair that is not quite so "big" ....

Dimitri

P.S.: Jord, thanks for relaying the message....

[cjolley]

Well then be sure you don't stand in one place with your feet burried in the dirt too long.
Lamark may have been right after all, who knows
chuck

[Muad'Dib]

Shit! I'm already starting to change names. I need to move my computer so I'm not in the damn dirt anymore!!!

I posted under my roommates name, sorry. Quite the moron I am lately....

Eatin my munch now too in case you cared. Sourdough toast (sorry, it's not dry... ) with grape juice. Got to find something green to eat too....

Laterz

Dimitri

[Wombat]

Muad'Dib,
To answer your original question, genes provide a basis for your growth/aging/traits, but not all of these are "turned on".
Example: I went to high school with a set of identical twins (therefore, same genes). Both were marijuana smokers in their early teens, but one started about 1-1/2 earlier than the other. That stunted her growth, and she's noticably shorter than her twin sister.