Car dealers

[The PIT]

Just bought a car from network Q in the Uk and guess what. The exhaust is £%^$ed. It's only done forty miles and I asked them to check it before I picked it up on Saturday.
It's okay we've checked it anyway I had other things on my mind due to young thugs putting my elderly neighbours windows through. I didn't feel crawling around the floor to check. I checked Tuesday eavning and yep it's blowing slightly through one of the joints. Anyway they asked me to bring it down this evening and they promptly found another hole. I had to insist about the first one before they agread there was another hole. I'll have to ring up tomorrow to speak to the sales manager so he authorise the repairs.
Hope he doesn't try to bullshit cos he can only lose.
I wonder what the 114 point check does, it doesn't list the checks on there web site. I wonder if thats because it's a to big a stick to beat them with.

[Pertti]

Check lists are supposed to be checked !!!

(definition of "to check something" = to draw a check mark in the appropriate check box )

Pertti
(Ducking for cover )

[Joel]

There is only one thing worse than a car salesman. A lawyer.

Joel

[paulcs]

How about journalists?

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[The PIT]

How about a teanage thug whos a salesmen and a part lawyer who also rights for the local rag on his day off.
They probably noticed the exhaust was duff and hoped I'd go away because it would spoil there profits.

[Brian R.]

A car salesman is an unemployed lawyer.

[This message has been edited by Brian R. (edited 23 August 2000).]

[Rags]

Having worked at several car dealerships myself as a technician. I can offer four possible explanations:

1. The problem was noted by the technician, and the sales dep't either thought it wasn't worth fixing (i.e. it wouldn't help the sale of the car) or it got sold before it could be fixed (which happens far too often).

2. The Technician noticed the problem, but since hes the guy who usually does these inspections as an hourly gopher, he could care less, since it only takes more time to document.

3. The technician NEVER DID THE INSPECTION (which is what happens many times due to either the dealership not being organized enough, or the car was sold before inspected).

4. The technician who performed the job was in such a hurry he didn't notice it.

This brings up a good topic. Car salesman are very rarely the cause of these types of things. It is likely they know NOTHING about the workings of an automobile beyond "This is your cup holder, ain't it convenient? Oh, here is your tilt steering, leather trim, and CD player...it's got all the goodies...hyuk!". Don't blame them. Blame the goddamned sales manager/General manager for letting things like this get by. And don't buy into the technicality that it "Was checked....well no nothing got fixed/reconditioned....but it DID get checked". They use these checklists as a selling point of their automobiles. They know that joe public has as much clue about the workings of a car as their sales people do, which generally is next to nothing. They know that joe public is more likely to pay a little more for a car that has the image of being totally checked and corrected. The harsh reality is that far too often these things mean absolutely nothing. And it is NOT the salesman's fault. Do you know who is going to have to pay to get your exhaust fixed? The salesman is. Why? Because they get paid a commission off of the profit of the sale. That means that if the car comes back and has to get something done, and the salesman/sales dep't promised the repair, yep the salesman gets to take the load of the cost. The only thing that will change this practice is people being SMART when they purchase vehicles. This means you DON'T buy it until you inspect it. This doesn't mean you go on a 2 mile trek and see if the stereo sounds good. This means you make an appointment with your prefered auto repair shop to have it FULLY inspected for obvious problems, and PAY them to do it. Yes, it will cost you around 50-90 dollars for a proper inspection which includes checking the brakes, steering/suspension, the engine for leaks, the engine's compression, the transaxle/transmission for leaks, the transaxle/transmission for proper shifting/clutch operation, the drive train for any worn/broken/missing parts, and in some states a full emissions test. This could be the best hundred bucks you ever spend. It not only will alert you to a pile of junk, but it will give you some bargaining to bring back to the table when problems are found. If EVERYONE did this, then it would be in the Dealership's best interest to actually do the inspection and correct the serious/semi-serious problems. No, they can't fix everything. Things such as mileage, year, the value, and what they paid for the car all have to be taken into account.

Now I think it's BS to say the salesman are the crooks, because they can only make their wage by selling cars. They are there to sell x number of vehicles and to make x amount of commission. They can only sell what their dealership has to offer. If the dealership doesn't give a shit and sells a bunch of crap cars, then he will be selling crap cars. No amount of integrity or morals will change that. It's out of his control. In the end the only one in control is the consumer. Last time I checked, there are more car dealerships in most towns than there are churches. So you can't tell me the consumer doesn't have a choice. Try writing a nasty-gram, file a complaint with the BBB, and maybe even write a letter to the editor.

My rant is over.

Rags

[Brian R.]

The salesman doing what he's told or what's in his best interest doesn't make it right, or even ethical. Every salesman I have ever dealt with has tried very hard to rip me off for every cent he could get. Lying to me about whether or not a problem with a car had been fixed or not, forgeting to add on (except at the last moment) some hidden charges for this and that.

Don't stand up for car salesmen with a straight face. They are the most dishonest people I have ever had the displeasure to do business with. Many of them have precise knowledge of what is going on with every car on the lot because it is their job. Lack of knowledge is only an excuse in the big and high volume lots.

I say chain them together with lawyers at the bottom of the ocean.

[Jeff]

I think we have all forgotten about the Insurance Salesman. I get to see these guys everyday at work. They are absolutly unbelievable.

JP

[Pertti]

Yeah, Read the fine print !!!

A good example was when my place was broken into, and among other things the thieves took some car stereos that I had lying around, but the insurance company refused to pay for those since I didn't have a car insurance for them !!! (I was between cars at that time)

[Rags]

Every salesman I have ever dealt with has tried very hard to rip me off for every cent he could get.

See, this is a major problem with consumers of vehicles. They always have the perception that getting what a car is really worth to you out of you, is somehow ripping you off. Please tell me if any of these guys ever took the keys to your car and said you can't leave until you purchase this car for this price. How many places have told you can't take the car for a day, so you can drive it, get it inspected, and get it appraised?

Lying to me about whether or not a problem with a car had been fixed or not...

Now, if you know a car had a specific problem, how on earth can you sit here and say you wouldn't be able to tell if it got fixed? Sometimes I really wonder about the general population, they seem to think that things such as cars and computers are witch-craft. They somehow seem to work with magic, and some guy comes along with a magic wand and fixes the problems with his super powers. This becomes frustrating for people, just like the salem witch hunts, they start scape-goating people when things go wrong because they, quite simply, don't understand the things. The lesson here is you take it to someone you do trust who DOES know, and have him/her tell you if it's been fixed or if it has problems, etc.

forgeting to add on (except at the last moment) some hidden charges for this and that.

This is probably the most frustrating part of purchasing a car. Going to the finance manager, and getting down to what is going to cost what. I agree that dealers should have a policy of including administrative fees in their prices. Some do. Most don't, and it's unfortunate. But to blame the guy who is simply a buffer between you and the BS, is folly.

Don't stand up for car salesmen with a straight face.

First, don't tell me what to do. Second, I will stand up for them, because they have to have one of the hardest jobs in the world mentally. They have to take abuse from people like you, they take abuse from their sales managers, they take abuse from the finance manager, from the general manager. They are the buffer between you and the BS and it's inevitable that they are going absorb it. When things go wrong, and a sale has to go through, and the customer refuses to pay for an administrative fee, if they want the sale to stick, they have to pay for that fee out of their pocket. If the customer insists on having *insert request here* with their car, it's them who pay. Not you. Not the dealer. The sales person does. I have know many sales persons, some of them were a bit on the strange side, but almost every one of them were pretty upstanding people (with the exception of my ex-wife ), who have a shitty job.

They are the most dishonest people I have ever had the displeasure to do business with.

You simply repeated yourself, look to my response to ripping people off for my answer.

Many of them have precise knowledge of what is going on with every car on the lot because it is their job.

Sometimes this is the case, but if the consumer were smart, this wouldn't be a problem. Cars, today, cost as much as some homes did ten years ago. One wouldn't dare buy a home without getting it appraised, checked/inspected, and thoroughly looking at and thinking about it first. Why on earth would you do the same with the purchase of an automobile? Don't sit here and tell me that the dealer advertises "all cars pass our 200 point quality check" "Reconditioned to the highest standards" "Quality assured seal of approval", etc. Because you wouldn't trust a Real Estate company to do the same. You pay to have someone come and look at your prospective purchase. Do the same with your car. Don't be such a tight-wad, and be smart. Spend the extra money, take a little time, and be a WISE consumer. If ALL consumers were wise consumers, then all dealers would be FORCED to really get things straight, otherwise they would never sell a car. But that is not the way it is. Consumers are too uninformed, gullible, cheap, and impulsive. And that's a fact, jack.

Ignorance is the root of all bigotry and hate. And your comments prove this. People get frustrated with things they don't understand, and it makes them less-smart in their buying decisions for some weird reason. This is something that I will never understand.

Rags



[This message has been edited by Rags (edited 27 August 2000).]

[Brian R.]

Yes Rags - You have the superior knowledge of the situation. Car salesmen only want what a car is worth.

Don't make me laugh

Stay in Casper, you will be happy there.

[This message has been edited by Brian R. (edited 27 August 2000).]

[Rags]

You know brian, you have to be the most narrow-minded individual I have ever met. To lump all of car salesmen together is pure bigotry. Shame on you. It makes you thicker pond scum than the people you are pointing fingers at.

My ex wife became a sales person after our divorce. And I am sure everyone has had to deal with car dealers before. As you said it in your last line of your "reply" DEALERS are the ones who are dishonest. You know, there are dishonest dealers here in Casper. I have not lived here all my life, mate. I have worked in much larger cities than you currently live in. And, to a point, the people in this part of the country tend to be a bit more honest towards their customers, because more than likely that customer is your neighbor, or you know them on a more personal level. If only everyone were to be more open-minded towards people and their professions, their heritage, their religion, their country of origin, we would have a lot less hate in this world. But, you mate, are a shining example of what's wrong in this world.

Next thing you know you are going to tell me that all Auto Repair Technicians are crooks too. Just go ahead and try.

Rags

[Brian R.]

There is nothing lower than a car salesman. You have no point.

[Rags]

This is response to your "edited" post. Learn how to read. Really. If I need to, I can post it in crayon, as that seems to be your mentality.

I SAID WHAT THE CAR IS WORTH TO THE CONSUMER! If it wasn't worth it to the consumer, then WHY ON EARTH WOULD HE/SHE BUY IT?

You are truly a piece.

Rags