When is stable really stable ?

[AlgoRhythm]

Dude, if you had supported as many desktop machines as servers as me, you might have a different opinion about the usefulness of Linux.

All I can say is "Reformat and reinstall". How many times have you had to do that with Windows?

I'll give you a prime example: When I was still working at Microsoft, there was some strange problem with our domain controller (Win2K), and we/they tried a ton of different things, until they finally brought in developers from the Win2K team. All they could suggest was a reformat and reinstall...

'Nuff said.

When the bozos who wrote that shitty stuff can't get it to work except for a reformat, it doesn't inspire my confidence...

I like an OS that doesn't slowly eat itself to death.

AlgoRhythm

[DuRaNgO]

"When it's:



[This message has been edited by DuRaNgO (edited 03 November 2000).]

[The PIT]

The last time I did a re-install of Windows when the pc got switched off or crashed. Mmm let me think must be years ago. Windows is quiet forgiving in that respect. Mandrake 7 was better as well. Software crapping windoze up yup thats a problem.

[FaRaN]

Mediaplayer7 ?

That's the biggest, ugliest, unusable, piece of shit I have ever seen coming from any softwarecompany.
Installed it, looked at it, couldn't turn off that ugly ugly interface, uninstalled it, shivered.

/rant

What's with that icon/balk on the bottom of the screen when choosing 'compact'? WHY IS THAT? WHAT THE HeLL IS IT FOR?! To choose: 'back to full ugly features'? What if you don't want them and stay compact 'for ever'? You will always see that win3.11 looking icon/bar in your screen?
Aaararagghh!HH!

/end rant

[Gurm]

Faran got crossposted.

As for windows...

On my home machine I run Win2k. I haven't reinstalled it since it went RTM in January/February.

On my work machines I run NT4. None of them have been reinstalled, ever.

My work servers run NT4 server and Win2k server. The NT4 server has been running WITHOUT ANY UNSCHEDULED DOWNTIME for 3 years. The Win2k server since January.

As for Linux, YES I've played with recent distributions. And we've had this argument before, but maybe you didn't bother to read it.

I use Linux. I have a Linux network. It's a fine little network. However, whenever I want to do any of my serious work, I have to log into a Windows machine.

And don't start in on how there's some mythical software packages for Linux that do useful stuff. Show me the following for Linux:

- Photoshop
- A _real_ office suite that is compatible with Word and Powerpoint (since that's what the rest of the world uses)
- 3D Studio
- Framemaker

Once you have those 4 things running on Linux then MAYBE those of us who do real world work in real world offices can use the machine.

And you haven't touched the whole complexity issue. You and I can troubleshoot Linux. 99.99999% of the population can't. 90+% of all PC users don't know that their machine HAS a command line, nevermind how to use it!

- Gurm



------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[The PIT]

I think Gurm sums the situ up perfectly. Maybe in a another year Linux will be ready for mass public but not yet.

[The PIT]

Faran ???? Short between eyeballs and keyboard. Who mentioned mediaplayer 7 ??
By the way the last version works on both my pc's fine and the machines at work.

[Gurm]

See but they don't WANT information hiding!

The problem here is that "OpenSource" and "IdiotFriendly" are mutually exclusive.

You can't hide the information, because then all the Linux geeks would have coronaries. But until you do, granny and bubba can't use the machine.

It's a real conundrum. I like BeOS.

But you're right - the issue is the fundamental Unix design. It's a 40-year old operating system, folks. It's time to give it a rest.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[AlgoRhythm]

There's a fundamental flaw with that whole: "It's harder to configure" crap...

Most people wouldn't have the faintest idea how to set up their machine from scratch without Windows on it either. If I gave granny a machine with either Windows or Linux pre-installed on it, she wouldn't really care. As long as she can e-mail and surf the web and type letters.

I would dare say that Windows can be MORE difficult to configure than Linux. Just browse the forums to see what kind of silly hoops have to be jumped through to get some things to work right.

40 year old design... Hmmm... Dude, get your facts straight. More like 30... Windows NT comes from a VMS legacy, SO WHAT!!! They're both fairly old design ideas...

The biggest point is: Most people buy a machine with all the stuff pre-installed in the first place, so configuration really isn't the issue, is it...


AlgoRhythm

[Gurm]

Err... here's the deal.

You plug a modem into your machine under windows, 9 times out of 10, it pops up and says "where's the driver floppy?". You put in a modem under Linux, and it just... well... doesn't do anything really. Plug 'n' Plop isn't.

And as for my time frame, UNIX began in the early to mid 60's. Probably DESIGNED even before that. That means 40 years, give or take. Even if it's 30, VMS was late 70's. And NT's kernel isn't really based that much on VMS, whereas Linux' kernel IS UNIX. Lock, stock, and barrel.

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[AlgoRhythm]

Dude, try 1969....

That's right, Linux doesn't even need a driver for the modem. It just sees it there. Sounds like a cool feature to me. I don't like having to reboot after installing a driver anyway.

AlgoRhythm

[Rags]

Algo,

Dude, if you are having to reformat your hdd's all the time using windows, then you have other problems. My win9x install started out in 96, and has been upgraded through 6 systems (approximately), dozens of new HDD's, and various operating system upgrades. That's right. The same freaking install. My win2k install has been on here since earlier this year (February, I believe), and have not had a single crash bring my system down. My linux mandrake install has crashed twice, both from trying to get my USB ports to work properly.

Rags

Happy computing.

[Gurm]

Algo,

You still haven't addressed my main contentions with Linux:

Word
Powerpoint
Photoshop
Framemaker
3D Studio

???

- Gurm

------------------
Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[The PIT]

Mmm Mandrake linux on my work machine has got a problem with large harddisks still it's okay booting with a floppy. Didn't have that problem with Nt or Win9x or Winme. Since we don't support linux at work I'll have to play with it in my spare time which isn't a lot.
Don't worry I'll get it working.

[AlgoRhythm]

Ok, Gurm, here's some software. Maybe it's not Microsoft, but it gets the job done for me.


Star Office (Word and PowerPoint compatible)
<a href="http://www.sun.com/products/staroffice/5.2/faqs-general.html#4">http://www.sun.com/products/staroffice/5.2/faqs-general.html#4</a>

The GIMP
<a href="http://www.gimp.org">http://www.gimp.org</a>

Adobe FrameMaker for Linux
<a href="http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/fmlinux.html">http://www.adobe.com/products/framemaker/fmlinux.html</a>

Blender
<a href="http://www.blender.nl">http://www.blender.nl</a>

I've never used FrameMaker, so I can't say. But, it's one that you said you'd like to see on Linux. I've used all the rest on this list though...


AlgoRhythm


[This message has been edited by AlgoRhythm (edited 03 November 2000).]