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  • #46
    We have been basically stuck with a Rambus like company that won. I'm no legal whiz, but if some company were to attempt to sell operating systems compatible with Windows today, I think MS would have them into court pretty quick. That's if they bothered suing, and didn't simply hire away all the talent or steal all the ideas, or buy the company outright.

    The basic problem is that Windows is a standard, and not an open standard. The only way beyond a standard is to create a new one, one that everybody is willing to agree to that is demonstrateably better than the old. Raw competition won't give you that, you need cooperation. If MS is found to be enforcing their standard through illegal means over any potential new ones, they should be stopped, whether you want to call them a monopoly or just ****oles. It won't give you any alternatives, but at least the possibility will be there in the future. If MS gets to make all the rules there never will be any competition, making all the rules is what MS calls innovation.

    PCI-2 is a much better standard than PCI obviously, the argument from Windows supporters is often that there is nothing better to be had than Windows and that it's because MS is the best, everybody else is incompetent. Yet if PCI-2 is the better option why isn't everybody using it? Or failing that, why isn't PCI at 66MHz at least? Or at 64 bit? Cost? I don't think so, platforms are evolving to 200-400MHz FSB's, and AGP caught on in a year, and it's still of questionable value. It's the same reason there is no competition in operating systems, an OS could be a hundred times better than Windows and still go nowhere. It takes a lot of cooperation to get a standard moving along, and that takes clout. We don't use AGP because it's better, we use it because Intel foisted AGP slots on the world and there was nothing better to stick in them.

    Windows will always be with us unless there is a different situation, a set of rules allowing equal opportunity. Ideas I can come up with off the cuff are simple things like an open standard for device drivers. I mean any OS can do it's thing, it shouldn't require special case drivers to interface hardware with it. It's not taking anything away from MS to enforce this, all it does is prevent one company from making all the rules on it's own. I think that alone would allow other companies to get something going. Having to advocate, aka beg, companies to support their new OS slows them down enough to allow MS to pick and choose strategies on dealing with them. I'm sure hardware manufacturers would rather a stable known driver definition to work with than a half dozen different drivers to match each version of Windows out there. (Talking basic driver functionality, obviously user preference aspects, if applicable, would have to be tailored to each OS, but that's trivial code) I've more than half convinced MS releases new versions of Windows just to overload the ability of companies to devote time to drivers.

    EDIT: Added an 'R'

    [This message has been edited by Himself (edited 08 November 2000).]

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    • #47
      Himself,

      I concur with you. However, let's not start with drivers... they're a bit more complex inside than you might think.

      - Gurm
      The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

      I'm the least you could do
      If only life were as easy as you
      I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
      If only life were as easy as you
      I would still get screwed

      Comment


      • #48
        Why not GIVE these ****oles a piece of the pie.

        Settle the issue in this way. OK M$ you wrote the standard and invested a lot of money (and muscle).

        You've earned a royalty on each version of the now OPEN standard.

        Now shut up and Compete.

        Greebe's juiced up Athlon @750 on an MSI Irongate Based M/B Marvel G200 TV with HW/DVD Daughtercard,
        CDBurner, Creative DVD, two big WD Hdds, Outboard 56K modem
        Parallel Port Scanner, Creative S/B AWE 64 (ISA), and a new Logitech WebCam (My first USB device)

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        • #49
          I know, it was just an off the cuff idealistic notion on my part, the world will be supporting Win98 for the next 5 years at least, and probably Win95 as well, I predict Win2K will take the same role WinNT has had, not go anywhere, just like NT. MS can add more to the lineup, but it's not displacing the old, it's just making more work for everybody. The very legacy of what's out there now means that nothing decent can be done for years to come.

          To defend my idealism though, I think there is room for a basic driver model to eliminate the notion of things like winmodems, and allow crappy modems to be used everywhere. Graphics cards, well there is OpenGL..., now if MS would just drop DirectX or make that open.. Sound, well that is pretty much stagnant, I'm sure a unified standard could be made out of the mess that's out there now. You can even argue that graphics cards are going to be getting stagnant in a few years in terms of features, well enough to make a generic standard out of them. Those are the main items that hold back any competition in OS development, graphics and sound drivers, they are the sellers. How long has scsi been an ongoing open standard? IDE? Nobody owns those, and it is those very things that alternative operating systems managed to support. I mean waiting for months for some basic video card drivers for an OS is not going to get that OS into stores or homes.

          There have been quite a few initiatives in the past towards agnostic designs and ideas, SDE, I think OpenPIC was one, I can't recall half the names of them, even the HAL of NT is a step in the right direction, all it takes is some real muscle behind it and more application. It would probably be a bitch in practice, but even if the only initial OS to work with the open standard was MS, at least it would be there and MS wouldn't be able to screw with it.


          My $.02

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          • #50
            Anyone who thinks Linux will be a consumer OS any time soon has to be on crack.
            (I'm on you're side on this one Gurm )

            Netscape is a POS, and the biggest nugget is it's handling of Java.

            DOS = fun
            Win3x = POS Squared
            Win95 = pretty cool
            Win98 = very nice
            WinNT & 2K too much trouble to administer for normal consumers.
            I haven't tried ME, can't think of a reason to switch.
            chuck

            Chuck
            秋音的爸爸

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            • #51
              Netscape sucks because they gave up working on it in a serious way, and that's because there was no money to be made in it with IE getting bigger and better and distributed by default with Windows. Right now, there are quite a few sites (most) that require IE to view properly, (well, view is a loose description, if I ever visit a site that doesn't crash due to javascript I'll be shocked), the intent behind the web was a general description language that would be cross platform, but now it's just another MS API. I don't blame the lack of competition there, once MS gets into something it gets screwed up, who wants to be a part of that?

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              • #52
                Himself,

                This is yet another misconception. Please, by all means, direct me to a site where the Javascript crashes IE. I have yet to find one, and I surf the web a LOT.

                - Gurm

                ------------------
                Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.
                The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                I'm the least you could do
                If only life were as easy as you
                I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                If only life were as easy as you
                I would still get screwed

                Comment


                • #53
                  Sorry, that should have been the javascript just doesn't work, the site crashes, not the browser. It doesn't crash IE usually, no idea why that happens, no error reporting in the program. I get endless "There has been an error on this page, do you wish to disable javascript" messages. Apparently, there are few people who know how to program using this extremely complicated language.


                  [This message has been edited by Himself (edited 08 November 2000).]

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                  • #54
                    Oh ok. Actually, in this case... we get to bash Netscape again.

                    They accept sloppy Javascript code. MS doesn't. MS's compilers and whatnot have been case sensitive for a long time. Their Javascript interpreter is no exception. So the variable SPAM is not the same as the variable SpAm.

                    Netscape sees only one variable there.

                    That's just one example. But basically Netscape's implementation is hella sloppy - and that's what people always coded for, since Netscape was the first to support it.

                    - Gurm

                    ------------------
                    Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.
                    The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                    I'm the least you could do
                    If only life were as easy as you
                    I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                    If only life were as easy as you
                    I would still get screwed

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Well, I disagree with the whole idea of javascript so I blame Netscape for that, but they did "invent" it so they should have determined the specs for it. If being case insensitive was one of them, MS should have followed along, guess they had to "innovate" that too.



                      [This message has been edited by Himself (edited 08 November 2000).]

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                      • #56
                        Actually, IIRC Javascript is specced by a consortium. I could be wrong though, it's been a while.

                        - Gurm

                        ------------------
                        Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.
                        The Internet - where men are men, women are men, and teenage girls are FBI agents!

                        I'm the least you could do
                        If only life were as easy as you
                        I'm the least you could do, oh yeah
                        If only life were as easy as you
                        I would still get screwed

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          You know these battles for the os are pretty funny.

                          Personnally, I've noticed something. Windows isn't the cause of all the problems. I mean crappy hardware, faulty programmation is the source of a lot of problems. People buy anything and expect it to work as would the other device that is twice as expensive.

                          I've never had a lot of problems with my computer and it's a Via Chipset with a G400Max. Everyone has seen the problems with those two. Well I always worked flawlesly. You just have to know what to do.

                          My Mandrake Linux works fine most of the time (KDE is crap compared to windows though I haven't tried Gnome nor KDE ver 2.0) but at school, it runs awful. It might be open source, but it's also the source of a lot of problem.

                          Sure it can do lots of things that are powerful and all but honnestly it takes way more time to learn how to do it in Linux then Windows. Don't get me wrong I like Linux. I want to to grow and become more important so that it give a little competition to Windows but honestly it still has a lot of work to do.

                          For office work, it's fine. Samba is marvelous (when you finally make it work ) and Apache seems to be very interesting. But for a home user, it has to change a lot of things. I mean really the GUI is not well integrated right now. I know I don't mind working in console but it's not very useful for surfing the net. Installation of Linux can be a nightmare for a beginner. Ok my first one went flawlesly. Beginner's luck. After that I've had lots of problems. I've had a lot of computers and while I'm no expert, I know a lot. And Linux is not easy to install. Don't kid yourselves, it's just one of many points they will have to improve if they want to take the candy out of BG's mouth.

                          I personnally see a lot of potential in Linux. But I look at the progress Windows made in like 10 years and I wonder what it will be like in another 10 years.

                          It tooks 40 years for UNIX to iron out all the bugs. UNIX is very stable now. Will Windows last that long and will it be finally stable?

                          I don't know...but I think it will last a long time.

                          As for IE, personnally I've heard that Netscape is easily hackable and it's definitly slower that IE 4+. I don't mind the occasionnals problems. It's not as bad as having no internet

                          Sicna

                          ------------------
                          Asus K7V
                          Athlon 750Mhz
                          1 X 256 megs Kingston PC 133 Mhz CAS 3-2-2
                          Matrox G400 MAX
                          Soundblaster Live
                          Windows ME & 2000 Professionnal

                          What kind of party is this. There's no booze and only one hooker. -Bender
                          Asus K7V
                          Athlon 750Mhz
                          1 X 256 megs Kingston PC 133 Mhz CAS 3-2-2
                          Matrox G400 MAX
                          Soundblaster Live
                          Windows ME & 2000 Professionnal

                          What kind of party is this. There's no booze and only one hooker. -Bender

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